The Mama Podcast

05. Colicky baby! Tips on how to relieve tummy aches and better communicate with your baby with Pranjul Tandon, Certified Childbirth Educator.

August 18, 2020 Sumayya/Pranjul Tandon
The Mama Podcast
05. Colicky baby! Tips on how to relieve tummy aches and better communicate with your baby with Pranjul Tandon, Certified Childbirth Educator.
Show Notes Transcript

As a mother herself, Pranjul spent a significant amount of time seeking truthful, logical and scientific principles that helped her during her pregnancy. This inspired her to become a certified Childbirth Educator.

Pranjul shares her journey with me, the common misconceptions and how to debunk those old wives tales. We talk about colic, how it's diagnosed and what a colicky baby might be experiencing. She also shares her tips and tricks on how we can relieve our babies tummy aches and colic.

Find Pranjul on Instagram @womb_and_beyond and website

We love hearing from you, contact us, email: hello@mymamaapp.com

Download the Mama ME app on Apple or Android, Find the links on the website
www.mymamaapp.com

Social media:
Instagram @mymamaapp
Facebook @mymamaapp




Intro music: www.bensound.com

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hi mama you're listening to the mama

podcast it's sumayya here the co-founder


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of mama ME app

mama me is the first app to exclusively


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connect mothers across the middle east

connects with like-minded mamas and


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creates lifelong friendships

at mama we are all about connecting


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mamas to empower women

so let's join together and make this


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mission a reality

today we're talking all about colic and


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tummy aches for babies i'm joined by the

wonderful pranjal who's a newborn


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care coach and infant childbirth

educator, Pranjul has so much


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information to share

so let's get stuck in. Hi pranjul thank


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you so much for joining me today i'm so

excited to talk to you and we're going


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to talk all about colic

 so much to learn about for me and


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yeah thank you for taking the time

thank you Sumayya thank you for


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having me here my pleasure so

pranjel if we could start off with where


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where you did your education what led

you into this


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early um child education and

pregnant or helping pregnant women that


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would be amazing just to give us a bit

of um


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give me and the listeners a bit of a

background of what led you to where you


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are now

so i had quite an interesting journey


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by education i'm an electronics and

communications engineer


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so that's how i i started my career

and i worked uh you know uh in uh


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in an engineering firm you know for two

years


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and uh as a communications engineer and

that was back in india


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and then i took a break when i was

pregnant i took a break


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uh i wanted to you know uh bring up my

uh baby girl and you know i i don't i


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didn't want to face those tough

office hours of you know like a 11 or a


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12

hour workday because back back in india


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that's what a typical corporate life is

you know all like


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is like you know it actually uh you know

it starts


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early in the morning and it ends only by

dinner time


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so the work life balance is not pretty

much there


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you know in a lot of countries

and uh you know being being from india


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that's how

my life was initially but then


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i really didn't want to you know

continue with that and


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uh my husband also you know we were we

were kind of


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unsure whether we want to continue in

india or move abroad so i was like


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i was very keen to have you know a

change of career


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and uh by that time my daughter was

uh you know around one one and a half


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years of

age and uh i i realized you know like


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while bringing her up i realized how

many


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uh how many uh policies and how many

superstitions are there you know


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in people's minds you know even educated

people's minds


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like there are so many myths so many

superstitions


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and young moms they actually uh they

actually fall for that


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so i spent a lot of time researching you

know


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uh about the science behind things

you know uh like whether it's something


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as

simple as uh my child's uh you know


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food or or you know whether i should

give her some


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uh some food item to eat or not or

should i hold back till she's


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a certain age or whether it's her poop

color


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or whether you know whether uh you know

it's about the little


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uh illnesses she's having you know

what's the scientific reason behind that


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and the relief strategies that many you

know


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many people used to suggest around me

did they make any sense


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so when i did my research on all of that

i


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i realized that there was a big big gap

and that really needs to be you know


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filled um

and uh you know


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the other thing that uh came into the

picture was that


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a lot of um companies you know a lot of

uh


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uh commercial there was a lot of

commercialization of baby products you


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know like hey

use this it would improve that you know


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that kind of a thing

or you know uh if your child is two


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years of age

use this product along with milk to give


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them extra strength or to you know

increase their height


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so all that led me to uh question a lot

of things


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and as i researched i i saw that there

was


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uh there was really uh you know scope of

educating my peers and scope of telling


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them

about the logical and scientific


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explanation you know for a lot of things

and that's how i decided to train as a


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child birth educator

i did my training with um childbirth and


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postpartum professional association

headquartered in the us so i did my


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training with them

and the training uh it lasted for around


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two years where i attended a lot of

classes a lot of workshops i


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gave a couple of exams i i had a lot to

read a lot of workshops to attend


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and uh so around 2000 early 2016

i graduated as a childbirth educator


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and we were in uh europe we were in

monaco at that time so that's where my


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journey began and that's how that's

where i started


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uh taking uh you know workshops for

pregnant women


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and that's how women beyond was born

and so did you find so that transition


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from

india to monaco obviously was during


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your time when you were studying did you

find that the same challenges existed in


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monaco with the women there too

yes of course i mean i was very


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surprised so i used to think that

a lot of superstitions were coming you


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know from

uh the indian um indian related myths


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indian related uh culture but no like my

i remember my first client she was


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petrified because

uh she had uh she had a miscarriage


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before that

and just the morning of miscarriage the


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morning she had miscarriage she had

eaten


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two teaspoons of flax seeds and

immediately after that unfortunately she


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had a miscarriage

so in her mind she found she formed a


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notion that somehow

flax seeds and miscarriage is connected


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and she was uh you know she was

a colombian living in monaco so there


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was there was

so that's when i decided that's when i


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realized that yes

myths and superstitions they they exist


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in a lot of minds

and they are formed because of negative


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experiences

or you know certain challenges that


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people face and it's

uh it's really required for uh


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there's always a space for a peer

counselor to come in


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and actually tell the moms using science

and logic that no that's not the case


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and how to look at things you know in in

in a better way


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yeah and so does that mean your role

really


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entails helping moms really figure out

where to get that information


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or is it that people come to you with

issues and problems and you help figure


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those out yeah so uh my

aim my goal is to uh you know guide moms


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to the correct information to

help them find the correct resources to


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uh

solve like in the sense that uh you know


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i often uh tell them that

hey if you look at these uh these


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websites

they are sort of uh medically verified


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you know by doctors or this article is

written by a


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well-known doctor so it it will

definitely have some truth to it


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uh rather than uh you know it's like

obviously so i guide them to uh


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evidence-based information

that's my main aim and there are a lot


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of times when

you know new parents or pregnant women


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come to me with issues like they're

having


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fever or their child is having diarrhea

so my aim at that


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time is to tell them about or you know

to guide them


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uh about making that that choice whether

to


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go to a doctor whether to go to an

emergency


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or whether to wait it out for it to

subside so i help them make that


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decision

uh and i always provide them


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evidence-based information while

making that decision so ultimately it's


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a pe

it's the parents choice i am not uh


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i'm not equipped to make a decision for

them


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or to tell them what to do but i can

always


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help them out uh by using uh scientific

information that i have access to that's


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incredible because you can guide them

with the


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specific problem that they're having at

the time but also


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from that they will learn what val what

information is more valuable than other


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information

i guess so it's it's a learning curve


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for them as well because in the future

they would be able to


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draw on that knowledge and make

decisions that are a bit more well


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informed

yeah exactly i mean i mean they know


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that

okay if uh suppose if a newborn baby is


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having fever

so you know they they know that i need


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to uh look out for

these many warning signs you know and if


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any of these warning signs

exist then i know that then i tell them


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that you must know

that going to a medical professional is


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important but if those warning signs

don't


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exist you can wait a couple of hours and

see how thing


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goes so it's like basically giving them

the confidence


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to uh you know to uh actually tied

across that situation


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and and that confidence actually many a

times only


0:10:00.560,0:10:03.680

a a peer counselor or an educator can

give


0:10:03.680,0:10:07.519

because no nurse or no doctor has the

time to actually you know


0:10:07.519,0:10:12.560

get into depth you know like if the baby

has just


0:10:12.560,0:10:18.560

a very slight fever say 99.8 you know

and the mother is freaking out i think


0:10:18.560,0:10:23.200

no doctor or no nurse

might entertain her in in many countries


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it's that when an educator can actually

come


0:10:25.839,0:10:30.959

and uh you know sort of like um

give her the confidence and kind of calm


0:10:30.959,0:10:35.519

her down that

uh by by showing her evidence


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yeah and that makes sense because you

know doctors and


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nurses i guess for them this is like

something they deal with all the time so


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they don't realize that

sometimes the emotional um aspect that


0:10:47.040,0:10:49.040

the mom is going through but you really

do


0:10:49.040,0:10:52.160

you would have the time and and like you

know you'd be able to


0:10:52.160,0:10:55.839

accommodate that kind of situation where

you can actually talk about


0:10:55.839,0:10:59.519

it and go through her their mom's

concerns or the dad's concerns and


0:10:59.519,0:11:03.760

actually talk about that in detail

which is really interesting and i mean


0:11:03.760,0:11:08.480

we chose the topic of colic

as our topic of discussion today because


0:11:08.480,0:11:11.680

it's

it's such a big topic and we hear about


0:11:11.680,0:11:15.360

it so

much um especially when the child is


0:11:15.360,0:11:18.640

quite young

um so i think it'd be great if you could


0:11:18.640,0:11:22.640

just maybe

briefly describe what colic is and


0:11:22.640,0:11:25.680

because i know

um i know this may be a personal


0:11:25.680,0:11:28.000

experience but sometimes what happens is

people


0:11:28.000,0:11:31.200

talk about colic and it may not actually

be colic


0:11:31.200,0:11:34.720

and so there's so many different people

use that term for so many different


0:11:34.720,0:11:40.160

things

yeah exactly so i have noticed that


0:11:40.160,0:11:44.640

anytime a baby cries uh you know it has

become a common


0:11:44.640,0:11:47.680

it has become a common lingo to say my

baby is having college so


0:11:47.680,0:11:51.200

any time the baby is crying the parents

say uh


0:11:51.200,0:11:55.279

they are they they comment that oh my

baby is having a colicky day


0:11:55.279,0:11:59.760

or my baby has colic almost uh

interesting is when their baby is like


0:11:59.760,0:12:03.680

one and a half or two years old and the

parent is like oh my baby still has


0:12:03.680,0:12:06.720

colic

so uh that's that's quite interesting


0:12:06.720,0:12:10.720

interesting and

uh incorrect i would say because uh


0:12:10.720,0:12:14.320

colic

is uh is not the other name of a baby


0:12:14.320,0:12:17.120

crying

it's something that is completely


0:12:17.120,0:12:21.519

different

so colic happens uh when a baby


0:12:21.519,0:12:28.240

that is around two to three weeks of age

till around four to five months of age


0:12:28.240,0:12:33.360

in between that age group

tries for uh more than three


0:12:33.360,0:12:40.399

hours uh almost every day

and this pattern continues for


0:12:40.399,0:12:46.480

more than three weeks you know so

if the baby is crying three to four


0:12:46.480,0:12:50.880

times a week

more than three hours every day


0:12:50.880,0:12:54.399

on those days and this pattern is

continuing


0:12:54.399,0:12:58.639

week after week after week since the

last three weeks at least


0:12:58.639,0:13:05.200

then only we can say that yes the baby

is definitely having colic like


0:13:05.200,0:13:11.839

is having colic and if you suspect that

you know your baby is um having colic


0:13:11.839,0:13:16.959

and the signs of the colic are that the

baby will cry in very high pitch volume


0:13:16.959,0:13:21.519

it would almost be like

shrieking the crying is almost like


0:13:21.519,0:13:26.079

shrieking away

uh and uh if you feel that


0:13:26.079,0:13:30.000

and nothing you do can comfort the baby

easily you know you you really can't


0:13:30.000,0:13:32.639

figure out why the baby is crying

because


0:13:32.639,0:13:36.800

physically you can't make out anything

that is wrong with the baby


0:13:36.800,0:13:41.600

but the baby is crying for hours at end

so if this is happening to your baby the


0:13:41.600,0:13:46.880

first thing you should be doing is

uh visiting a pediatrician to understand


0:13:46.880,0:13:52.480

uh that this is colic or something like

an ear infection or some kind of


0:13:52.480,0:13:57.519

internal infection or injury that is

causing the baby to be so distressed


0:13:57.519,0:14:03.839

so of course it always helps to

get it verified from a pediatrician that


0:14:03.839,0:14:09.040

this truly is colic

but please keep in mind that a colic


0:14:09.040,0:14:12.560

usually disappears by the time the child

is around


0:14:12.560,0:14:17.839

four months of age so by four months of

age 90 80 to 90 percent of the babies


0:14:17.839,0:14:22.320

are cured you know from this temporary

health condition called colic


0:14:22.320,0:14:27.600

uh by five months of age it's

after five months of age it's rare for a


0:14:27.600,0:14:33.680

baby to suffer from colic

so uh so it's it's important to uh keep


0:14:33.680,0:14:37.040

uh you know the the age group in mind

while


0:14:37.040,0:14:41.920

uh but when when uh you know when saying

that hey my child is suffering from


0:14:41.920,0:14:45.600

colic

also many parents they uh you know they


0:14:45.600,0:14:50.240

get a newborn home from the hospital

the first few days are kind of tough


0:14:50.240,0:14:54.480

because the baby

is uh learning how to feed the baby


0:14:54.480,0:14:57.040

might be

you know a little uncomfortable the


0:14:57.040,0:15:00.480

parents are learning

so during that time if the baby is


0:15:00.480,0:15:04.079

crying a lot

then also many uh parents jump to the


0:15:04.079,0:15:07.519

conclusion that

oh my six day old baby is having colic


0:15:07.519,0:15:11.760

no it's too early for us to say

maybe it is colic but it's too early for


0:15:11.760,0:15:15.440

us to say that

it's colic so until the baby is around


0:15:15.440,0:15:20.000

three weeks of age

it's hard to uh it's hard for us to


0:15:20.000,0:15:24.160

guess whether it's colic or not

and when you say three hours do you mean


0:15:24.160,0:15:29.120

three hours continuously or three hours

in the day as a total thumb


0:15:29.120,0:15:33.199

that's the main characteristic it's it's

almost continuously


0:15:33.199,0:15:37.120

it's it's continuous continuous crying

so you really can't


0:15:37.120,0:15:40.800

miss out on that it's like continuous

crying


0:15:40.800,0:15:43.920

for no apparent reason and nothing you

know


0:15:43.920,0:15:50.160

helps the baby uh calm down easily

that's really interesting because i mean


0:15:50.160,0:15:52.880

three hours is a really long time of

crying


0:15:52.880,0:15:57.600

right like having a child cry for that

amount of time must be


0:15:57.600,0:16:01.759

quite challenging for the parents yeah

it is it's because


0:16:01.759,0:16:04.800

but for the parents as well right not

really knowing what's going


0:16:04.800,0:16:11.120

on and so um are there sort of any

real strategies or things in place that


0:16:11.120,0:16:15.680

can help resolve or

improve colic so uh


0:16:15.680,0:16:19.680

like before uh knowing like before

learning what are the strategies it's


0:16:19.680,0:16:24.480

important to learn what causes it and

unfortunately we cannot learn what


0:16:24.480,0:16:28.320

causes it because even the doctors their

opinions are completely different on


0:16:28.320,0:16:31.519

what

causes it so there are multiple theories


0:16:31.519,0:16:34.639

on what could be causing this very

temporary


0:16:34.639,0:16:39.839

yet stressful health condition so some

doctors feel that this has something to


0:16:39.839,0:16:44.800

do with the intestines of the baby

some doctors feel that some grow extra


0:16:44.800,0:16:49.600

growth of healthy bacteria

causes this condition some doctors feel


0:16:49.600,0:16:53.440

that

you know the baby's uh digestion system


0:16:53.440,0:16:58.639

is uh growing improving maturing and

that causes colic


0:16:58.639,0:17:03.519

so uh so there there is a group of

doctors that feel that


0:17:03.519,0:17:07.760

colic is somehow related to the baby's

digestive system


0:17:07.760,0:17:14.240

whereas the other set of doctors feel

that colic is uh because of emotional


0:17:14.240,0:17:18.959

reasons like sometimes the baby

some babies are a little more sensitive


0:17:18.959,0:17:22.880

than the others

and those babies uh when they uh when


0:17:22.880,0:17:25.919

they hear

a lot of noise or sounds in the


0:17:25.919,0:17:29.679

background

or they see a lot of faces they really


0:17:29.679,0:17:33.679

get overwhelmed

and politic is a way for them to uh you


0:17:33.679,0:17:37.679

know

get some sort of relief like by the


0:17:37.679,0:17:42.160

by the time the afternoon rolls in they

are like i have had it enough and they


0:17:42.160,0:17:45.440

cry it out

to kind of because of that over


0:17:45.440,0:17:50.320

stimulation they have had during the day

so there are two sets of theories and


0:17:50.320,0:17:54.720

it's amazing

that i have met uh parents whose babies


0:17:54.720,0:17:59.120

suffer from colic

and i've actually had parents who swore


0:17:59.120,0:18:03.280

that uh you know

over stimulation was the reason that was


0:18:03.280,0:18:06.480

causing colic

and there are many many parents who say


0:18:06.480,0:18:10.880

that their child's digestion issues

you know was the one that was causing


0:18:10.880,0:18:15.679

colic so it's it's really confusing

but there seems to be like these two


0:18:15.679,0:18:19.360

main groups

and the other characteristic of college


0:18:19.360,0:18:25.520

that that is truly unique is that

uh colic you usually strikes at the same


0:18:25.520,0:18:29.840

uh you know same time every day so a

quality baby


0:18:29.840,0:18:35.039

would usually start crying around the

same time in the afternoon or in the


0:18:35.039,0:18:38.240

evening

and usually that time is you know


0:18:38.240,0:18:42.080

afternoons or

evenings or towards the night time so


0:18:42.080,0:18:45.679

that

that uh you know kind of uh leads uh


0:18:45.679,0:18:49.200

many doctors to further believe that yes

it has some uh


0:18:49.200,0:18:52.240

something to do with over stimulation

from


0:18:52.240,0:18:56.559

since the morning since the start of the

day the child is totally overstimulated


0:18:56.559,0:19:01.360

but uh the the real reason still till

date no doctor knows


0:19:01.360,0:19:05.679

so i guess if you did like i mean if you

were your child was diagnosed with colic


0:19:05.679,0:19:09.919

then you could potentially try

both other news in terms of a relief


0:19:09.919,0:19:13.760

strategy

so uh in when it comes to relief


0:19:13.760,0:19:17.919

strategies

uh i basically trained as


0:19:17.919,0:19:23.280

a a newborn care coach and i trained as

an infant massage instructor


0:19:23.280,0:19:29.360

uh and uh i was um

i trained in a lot of college relief


0:19:29.360,0:19:32.640

strategies

and the the my favorite strategy you


0:19:32.640,0:19:35.520

know my my favorite advice to parents

would be


0:19:35.520,0:19:42.720

to use a lot of um you know massage

to help calm the quality baby down


0:19:42.720,0:19:48.400

now massage has two benefits a it's very

relaxing as we all know because you know


0:19:48.400,0:19:53.039

when when someone is massaging us there

is a release of a lot of good hormones


0:19:53.039,0:19:56.480

in our body

and in the baby's bodies you know so


0:19:56.480,0:19:59.679

it's oxytocin's

endorphins being released which


0:19:59.679,0:20:04.880

obviously helps calm

you know babies down the other advantage


0:20:04.880,0:20:11.679

of a massage is that

when a baby is crying a lot the baby


0:20:11.679,0:20:15.840

ends up swallowing

a lot of air and that may cause gas


0:20:15.840,0:20:20.320

in the baby so colicky babies are

usually


0:20:20.320,0:20:27.360

gassy too because of excessive crying

they end up swallowing the excess air so


0:20:27.360,0:20:31.360

when we do massage you know on an infant

it actually helps


0:20:31.360,0:20:37.200

uh release excessive gas

and that i think is uh is is a good


0:20:37.200,0:20:41.120

strategy

when dealing with colic and another


0:20:41.120,0:20:46.000

strategy that i always

advise is that when a baby is crying you


0:20:46.000,0:20:50.799

know because of colic and you are sure

that there is nothing like physically or


0:20:50.799,0:20:54.480

majorly wrong

uh with with the baby but the baby is


0:20:54.480,0:20:57.679

just going on crying and you really

can't figure the reason out


0:20:57.679,0:21:01.760

it's important for parents to realize

that it happens


0:21:01.760,0:21:05.360

you know it it will not harm the baby

permanently


0:21:05.360,0:21:09.120

and the parents need to become

themselves because babies at the end of


0:21:09.120,0:21:13.120

the day they imitate the parents

so if the parent starts panicking starts


0:21:13.120,0:21:16.720

crying and then some parents even in

anger start shaking the baby which is


0:21:16.720,0:21:19.760

very very

harmful for the baby so it's important


0:21:19.760,0:21:23.679

for parents to remain relaxed remain

cool and remain calm


0:21:23.679,0:21:29.039

and know that this is just a phase and

it will pass away really really soon


0:21:29.039,0:21:34.159

so uh yeah so these are my top

strategies for dealing with colic


0:21:34.159,0:21:38.640

yeah and i think remaining calm is

obviously must be so challenging when


0:21:38.640,0:21:42.880

your child is crying for so long

um so just from my personal experience


0:21:42.880,0:21:47.200

my daughter actually has a

cow's milk allergy and we didn't know


0:21:47.200,0:21:50.559

that until she was around

eight or nine months old so we had a lot


0:21:50.559,0:21:56.480

of crying sessions when she was younger

it would never last three hours but


0:21:56.480,0:22:00.320

one thing that i can say is it's okay to

put your baby down for a minute or two


0:22:00.320,0:22:04.240

just to have a breather

do you know anything sometimes like we


0:22:04.240,0:22:07.919

really sort of focus on trying to get

the cup baby to calm down but for us to


0:22:07.919,0:22:10.559

remain calm

it may mean that you have to put the


0:22:10.559,0:22:15.360

baby down step out of the situation

have a minute have a have a couple of


0:22:15.360,0:22:18.000

minutes and for me my husband travels a

lot for work so


0:22:18.000,0:22:21.039

it wasn't always that he was around to

you know


0:22:21.039,0:22:25.200

take over and that might mean in some

situations it may mean that i had to put


0:22:25.200,0:22:29.039

her down for a minute

walk away just have a breather and then


0:22:29.039,0:22:31.440

go back in

and and i think that's important to


0:22:31.440,0:22:34.640

remember because

you know when you're in them in the


0:22:34.640,0:22:38.640

thick of it it's really quite

challenging sometimes and


0:22:38.640,0:22:42.159

my daughter never cried for that amount

of time but it is even when she was


0:22:42.159,0:22:46.480

crying for 45 minutes an hour it was

still quite challenging


0:22:46.480,0:22:50.000

absolutely and uh especially you know if

you


0:22:50.000,0:22:54.720

yourself are calm and the environment

around you is quite you know calm


0:22:54.720,0:22:59.600

with no additional noise coming in many

a times that works on quality babies


0:22:59.600,0:23:02.799

because again as i said before

the theory is that it's the over


0:23:02.799,0:23:08.000

stimulation that is causing them

you know to cry so much so if if you


0:23:08.000,0:23:13.679

dim the lights if you uh reduce any

uh you know additional extra noise


0:23:13.679,0:23:16.640

coming in

or maybe switch on some white noise some


0:23:16.640,0:23:21.039

babies tend to like it

and you yourself are breathing you know


0:23:21.039,0:23:25.919

very calmly and very deeply

so uh you know eventually the baby will


0:23:25.919,0:23:29.520

calm down with you

and so the colic drops is something that


0:23:29.520,0:23:32.400

you see everywhere right on every kind

of


0:23:32.400,0:23:38.400

um shop floor like where there's

baby products there's always colic drops


0:23:38.400,0:23:41.200

so

what what are the thoughts on colic


0:23:41.200,0:23:46.480

drops and do they work

so uh you know there are a variety of


0:23:46.480,0:23:50.880

colic drops

and sometimes uh you know there are gas


0:23:50.880,0:23:54.480

drops like to reduce the gas there are

medicines to


0:23:54.480,0:23:58.159

reduce gas which are being sold as for

colic as well


0:23:58.159,0:24:04.080

and there are sometimes bright water uh

which is being sold as uh something to


0:24:04.080,0:24:08.799

help relieve

colic so uh as per


0:24:08.799,0:24:13.440

my information till date there is no

medical research that proves that these


0:24:13.440,0:24:16.960

drops work

and it's important to know that they are


0:24:16.960,0:24:22.799

just an alternative therapy

so no uh nobody can say for sure that


0:24:22.799,0:24:26.960

they work

and uh sometimes if the baby gets


0:24:26.960,0:24:33.120

a lot of gas while crying

uh and the baby is passing gas while


0:24:33.120,0:24:36.960

crying and you can see hard pockets of

air in the baby's stomach and you know


0:24:36.960,0:24:39.440

that

okay the baby is colicky as well as


0:24:39.440,0:24:46.159

gassy and if your pediatrician refers

uh you know some kind of gas anti-gas


0:24:46.159,0:24:51.440

medicine they sometimes work and parents

feel that hey these drops really work


0:24:51.440,0:24:55.600

but that's you know that's not really

the solution to the


0:24:55.600,0:24:59.520

bigger problem it just solved one of the

symptoms that was gas


0:24:59.520,0:25:05.760

when it comes to gripe water and other

you know herbal colic medicines uh it's


0:25:05.760,0:25:09.360

important to

keep in mind that any medicine that you


0:25:09.360,0:25:14.559

are giving to your newborn

must must be vetted by a pediatrician


0:25:14.559,0:25:18.320

must have been recommended by a

pediatrician otherwise it could be


0:25:18.320,0:25:21.520

harmful for your little one's tiny

digestive system


0:25:21.520,0:25:24.960

a lot of time uh a la uh you know we say

oh


0:25:24.960,0:25:28.480

it's okay to give some medicine to a

newborn because it's herbal


0:25:28.480,0:25:34.400

but please keep in mind that these herbs

are they are actually you know they are


0:25:34.400,0:25:38.320

very potent

herbs are not something that have zero


0:25:38.320,0:25:42.240

side effects

even herbs have side effects and


0:25:42.240,0:25:48.240

unfortunately a lot of parents in their

uh you know in their frustration they


0:25:48.240,0:25:51.039

end up

over feeding their child those herbal


0:25:51.039,0:25:55.679

medicines which is again wrong

because uh the babies they have they are


0:25:55.679,0:25:59.440

so tiny

that overfeeding any herbal medicine can


0:25:59.440,0:26:05.600

be harmful for the babies too

so um so always only go for medically


0:26:05.600,0:26:09.520

recommended medicines

and always stay away from medicines that


0:26:09.520,0:26:14.240

have alcohol

or sugar in them because uh you know


0:26:14.240,0:26:18.799

especially in the 70s and 80s there were

a lot of bright water brands that had


0:26:18.799,0:26:22.080

alcohol and sugar in them and when you

fed them to the baby


0:26:22.080,0:26:26.159

obviously the baby enjoyed the taste

because of the sugar and fell instantly


0:26:26.159,0:26:28.400

asleep

and the parents you know they felt


0:26:28.400,0:26:31.919

victorious that hey this ripe water

really works but it was working


0:26:31.919,0:26:35.039

because of the alcohol and sugar content

which is really


0:26:35.039,0:26:40.159

harmful for the baby so always check the

ingredients it shouldn't have


0:26:40.159,0:26:46.080

those two uh things and always

uh if your doctor asked you to take it


0:26:46.080,0:26:50.240

then only take it otherwise no

that's really interesting because like


0:26:50.240,0:26:54.080

my mom's generation my mom

and my aunts who are of that generation


0:26:54.080,0:26:57.600

sort of swear by

white water but that's probably why


0:26:57.600,0:27:01.440

because it was probably filled with tons

of sugar and alcohol and we were just so


0:27:01.440,0:27:04.640

fast asleep because they gave us some

great water


0:27:04.640,0:27:10.559

i asked have still seen some uh bright

water brands that have alcohol and sugar


0:27:10.559,0:27:13.840

so just be aware so we'd read the label

i guess


0:27:13.840,0:27:17.440

read read the label all the time you

know


0:27:17.440,0:27:20.960

so that's really interesting because i

mean


0:27:20.960,0:27:25.039

colic is such a i mean that's a very

specific this is what colic is


0:27:25.039,0:27:30.320

and this is how to identify it

but there are so many other conditions


0:27:30.320,0:27:34.960

that give

similar symptoms exactly like for


0:27:34.960,0:27:40.080

example my daughter was initially

diagnosed or they were con sort of


0:27:40.080,0:27:44.480

suspecting that she may be colic

because of the sort of the time that she


0:27:44.480,0:27:46.960

would cry and the

the length that she would cry but there


0:27:46.960,0:27:50.399

were other symptoms that sort of drew

them away from the fact that it was


0:27:50.399,0:27:53.919

colic and it wasn't colic and it was

quite a long time so i breastfed for a


0:27:53.919,0:27:57.200

while and it's not until we introduced

until we introduced formula that we


0:27:57.200,0:28:01.600

realized that she actually had something

more specific to the actual cow's milk


0:28:01.600,0:28:05.039

and i'm not

um dairy free so in my diet there was


0:28:05.039,0:28:10.240

always some element of dairy

and it took a long time to eliminate and


0:28:10.240,0:28:14.320

get to that that point

but there was a time when we would speak


0:28:14.320,0:28:16.399

to the doctors and the doctors would

sort of


0:28:16.399,0:28:20.720

talk about this um potential that she

was colleague or she had colic


0:28:20.720,0:28:23.840

so there are so many other conditions

that give or mimic


0:28:23.840,0:28:30.000

colic right yeah so unfortunately

uh till now we don't know the exact


0:28:30.000,0:28:33.600

cause of colic

and so we are still very confused and


0:28:33.600,0:28:38.880

that's why there are a lot of moms who

uh who claim that you know when they


0:28:38.880,0:28:43.200

eliminated dairy

or they eliminated certain uh gassy food


0:28:43.200,0:28:47.360

products from their

diet their baby calmed down so


0:28:47.360,0:28:52.799

uh you know and we still and we have to

like kind of take that into account


0:28:52.799,0:28:58.000

so if you um if you really suspect and

if you especially if you have a strong


0:28:58.000,0:29:02.240

uh you know uh family history of any

kind of food allergy


0:29:02.240,0:29:09.120

then it makes sense to eliminate certain

uh food products from your diet to see


0:29:09.120,0:29:13.919

if that is causing uh you know your

baby's colic to go away or not


0:29:13.919,0:29:18.720

so dairy being one of it because the

dairy protein proteins can actually


0:29:18.720,0:29:22.480

uh seep in you know to the uh breast

milk via


0:29:22.480,0:29:26.080

blood so there are a lot of foods that

really don't impact the breast


0:29:26.080,0:29:30.559

milk but certain foods like dairy like

alcohol like caffeine they do


0:29:30.559,0:29:33.919

impact the breast milk and especially

for uh


0:29:33.919,0:29:37.840

especially for babies who are who have

say dairy


0:29:37.840,0:29:41.360

intolerance or allergies related to

dairy products


0:29:41.360,0:29:46.799

so if you suspect that it won't harm to

just give it a try


0:29:46.799,0:29:52.720

uh and see what what works for you

yeah i totally i mean for me i wish i'd


0:29:52.720,0:29:56.559

known that earlier because i would have

eliminated gary to just see what would


0:29:56.559,0:29:59.039

happen

and it would have made i'm sure like my


0:29:59.039,0:30:01.440

daughter would have been more

comfortable and it would have made life


0:30:01.440,0:30:04.480

a little bit easier because you would

have been crying for as long


0:30:04.480,0:30:07.840

um but you know you'd learn these things

as you go along and i'm sure like every


0:30:07.840,0:30:11.360

mother can relate to the fact that

you know there's so much learning and


0:30:11.360,0:30:15.200

especially in those early months there's

such a steep learning curve


0:30:15.200,0:30:18.240

yeah and and the good news is that uh by

uh


0:30:18.240,0:30:22.080

four to five months of age you know it's

it's over


0:30:22.080,0:30:26.640

like you will it it's it's absolutely

rare to see a six month old baby


0:30:26.640,0:30:31.840

suffering from colic it doesn't happen

so it's a very very short period of time


0:30:31.840,0:30:35.679

you know into history is it instant does

it just happen like


0:30:35.679,0:30:39.440

you know they they kind of go to five

months or six months and it just kind of


0:30:39.440,0:30:44.320

the crying just stops yeah it it does it

it happens like that but in fact


0:30:44.320,0:30:49.200

by uh by three to four months of age

most babies they start getting normal


0:30:49.200,0:30:52.880

and it kind of

it reduces and then stops it must be


0:30:52.880,0:30:55.120

such a

lovely feeling for a mom who's dealing


0:30:55.120,0:30:57.200

with a colic baby do you know the day

that


0:30:57.200,0:31:01.440

they wake up and the child just sort of

stops crying or doesn't cry as much


0:31:01.440,0:31:06.640

because obviously they still cry

but it's not yeah and whatever they are


0:31:06.640,0:31:10.320

doing at that time point of time whether

they have cut out dairy or they are


0:31:10.320,0:31:13.440

giving some dried water or whether they

are massaging it


0:31:13.440,0:31:16.880

they all say that okay that thing worked

but if you


0:31:16.880,0:31:21.440

go through if you go to uh you know to

what doctors say


0:31:21.440,0:31:25.600

certain things are proven to work

massage being one of them


0:31:25.600,0:31:28.960

being in a calm environment uh being one

of them


0:31:28.960,0:31:33.120

and so useful will definitely work you

touched on massage quite a few times


0:31:33.120,0:31:35.519

there

and obviously baby massage is very


0:31:35.519,0:31:39.039

particular and there's like a technique

of doing baby massage


0:31:39.039,0:31:44.320

um would you say to even if the

child isn't suffering from colic would


0:31:44.320,0:31:46.000

you say that this is something

advantageous


0:31:46.000,0:31:51.279

for all babies definitely i mean there

is plenty of


0:31:51.279,0:31:55.039

medical research that has happened on

baby massage


0:31:55.039,0:31:58.880

and if using the correct techniques the

correct uh you know


0:31:58.880,0:32:04.080

the correct pressure because you cannot

be too harsh on babies by massaging them


0:32:04.080,0:32:10.000

uh so uh and if done with uh you know

uh love and care of course baby massage


0:32:10.000,0:32:12.720

is something that is useful for all

babies


0:32:12.720,0:32:18.799

and there is a science behind it uh our

you know touch is one of our most


0:32:18.799,0:32:23.600

important senses

so if a baby is born without uh without


0:32:23.600,0:32:27.360

the

power to see or without hearing


0:32:27.360,0:32:30.399

capability

the baby can still thrive in the world


0:32:30.399,0:32:32.880

the baby can still happily live in the

world


0:32:32.880,0:32:36.240

but no human being can survive without

touch


0:32:36.240,0:32:42.480

so touch is the most important sense

and it's the first sense to form in the


0:32:42.480,0:32:46.960

womb

wow yeah so uh there were experiments


0:32:46.960,0:32:50.080

done

on babies who were around eight weeks of


0:32:50.080,0:32:55.519

gestational age in the womb

and those little embryos were stroked


0:32:55.519,0:32:59.679

using

a little strand of human hair


0:32:59.679,0:33:04.000

and on the cheeks and the baby had a

protective movement to move away from


0:33:04.000,0:33:08.159

that

a little stroke of hair oh wow


0:33:08.159,0:33:14.480

from the age of eight weeks yeah in

in the womb so that's when touch


0:33:14.480,0:33:19.120

develops and touch is the last sense to

leave the human body


0:33:19.120,0:33:22.480

you know any human being can survive

without eyes or


0:33:22.480,0:33:25.519

ears or if your nose gets blocked and

you can't taste or


0:33:25.519,0:33:29.919

uh you know smell anything that's fine

you know it won't end your life but


0:33:29.919,0:33:33.840

touch

it is there till our very last breath


0:33:33.840,0:33:38.159

and that is the reason why skin has been

classified as an organ


0:33:38.159,0:33:42.480

in fact it is a very very important

organ isn't it like 70 percent of your


0:33:42.480,0:33:45.039

body

um or is the largest organ in the body


0:33:45.039,0:33:48.080

right largest organ in the body skin is

so important


0:33:48.080,0:33:53.120

and the only way to nourish that organ

is by massage


0:33:53.120,0:33:58.320

so you know when you massage a baby uh

as i said before a lot of good hormones


0:33:58.320,0:34:03.200

are released in the baby

because of uh you know touch and


0:34:03.200,0:34:07.279

uh if done correctly you know uh it can

actually


0:34:07.279,0:34:13.520

uh help get relief from a lot of

uh common ailments like uh colic being


0:34:13.520,0:34:17.679

one of them constipation

teething pain a lot of doctors if you go


0:34:17.679,0:34:21.119

to them with

saying that my baby has teething pain


0:34:21.119,0:34:24.800

they will not give you any pain killer

or something they would just say like


0:34:24.800,0:34:28.560

massage the gums

that's the most obvious thing you know


0:34:28.560,0:34:34.000

my uh my eight-year-old recently had

uh um you know some teeth trouble she's


0:34:34.000,0:34:37.280

eight years but the dentist said massage

her gums


0:34:37.280,0:34:41.599

so that's the most obvious uh relief

thing that that


0:34:41.599,0:34:44.720

we do and it doesn't have any side

effects


0:34:44.720,0:34:50.800

uh so uh so that's how you know

from a lot of congestion you know you


0:34:50.800,0:34:54.800

can really get help from

congestion or sinus related issues if


0:34:54.800,0:34:59.920

you massage correctly

and a lot of uh you know relief from uh


0:34:59.920,0:35:05.280

physiological strain you know uh

you can get relief from that if you if


0:35:05.280,0:35:08.320

you massage and stretch your limbs

correctly


0:35:08.320,0:35:12.560

so there's a very interesting scientific

um explanation to that right


0:35:12.560,0:35:16.000

and i'm sure you probably know what it

is but the


0:35:16.000,0:35:20.720

it's getting so me getting geeky and

sort of digging into my biology days but


0:35:20.720,0:35:24.079

it's when your c fibers are activated

instead of your pain


0:35:24.079,0:35:31.839

receptors which is your a fibers that

right yeah


0:35:32.160,0:35:35.040

it's just something that you when you

were explaining it it just reminded me


0:35:35.040,0:35:39.280

of

of the c fibers and though and the most


0:35:39.280,0:35:43.040

important thing to remember is that uh

see one


0:35:43.040,0:35:46.480

one way of massaging is just like doing

it


0:35:46.480,0:35:49.920

out of instincts like when we pat a

newborns


0:35:49.920,0:35:54.240

back you know in order to make them work

that's a very basic form of massage


0:35:54.240,0:35:56.800

which most parents they automatically

learn


0:35:56.800,0:36:00.640

just patting the back in order to make

them work but then there is


0:36:00.640,0:36:04.079

there are certain little technicalities

that come into play like


0:36:04.079,0:36:08.320

when massaging a newborn stomach to help

them get relief from colic


0:36:08.320,0:36:13.680

or just for general welding of this if

we massage their stomach


0:36:13.680,0:36:18.640

uh you know all human beings their uh

their intestines they work in a


0:36:18.640,0:36:23.040

clockwise direction

like the gas and the poop material it it


0:36:23.040,0:36:27.520

actually travels in a

clockwise way inside a human's thumb


0:36:27.520,0:36:30.320

stomach

so massaging on on the stomach should


0:36:30.320,0:36:34.160

always be done in a clockwise direction

if you do it in the anti-clockwise


0:36:34.160,0:36:41.280

direction it won't be that effective

so like that every part of a baby's body


0:36:41.280,0:36:45.520

has some technique associated with it

and of course you have to be very


0:36:45.520,0:36:48.480

careful

not to provide any ticklish touch to the


0:36:48.480,0:36:52.320

baby at the same time not to be very

harsh on the baby because they are very


0:36:52.320,0:36:57.119

very delicate

you know so uh that's how i coach


0:36:57.119,0:37:02.079

the parents you know to uh to to massage

not only for calling but for


0:37:02.079,0:37:06.240

general well-being of the baby i think

this all all this talk about massage has


0:37:06.240,0:37:09.599

really made me realize the importance of

me having a massage so maybe


0:37:09.599,0:37:13.119

once we get off this um podcast

recording i might go and


0:37:13.119,0:37:17.760

book myself a massage but um with your

massage classes right now they are


0:37:17.760,0:37:22.800

online at the moment currently at the

moment because of the covet thing it is


0:37:22.800,0:37:26.240

it is online

i mean up that's actually absolutely the


0:37:26.240,0:37:31.680

safest because i don't want to be

uh meeting any postpartum moms and their


0:37:31.680,0:37:38.240

newborn babies at this point of time

because anyways uh babies their immunity


0:37:38.240,0:37:43.040

is a lot

lower than ours and so it's just best to


0:37:43.040,0:37:47.119

do it online at this point of time and

that makes sense and so are you still


0:37:47.119,0:37:51.359

running your other classes too

where um it's more information-based


0:37:51.359,0:37:55.520

classes

yes so uh that's the thing like when i


0:37:55.520,0:38:00.880

teach a pregnant woman about

a childbirth education it's most mostly


0:38:00.880,0:38:05.040

information based

and what i try to do is i try and bridge


0:38:05.040,0:38:08.400

the gap between her and her health care

provider so


0:38:08.400,0:38:12.240

uh instead of telling her do this do

that you should be delivering like this


0:38:12.240,0:38:15.520

not like that

i tell her i encourage her to ask the


0:38:15.520,0:38:20.079

correct questions

from her doctor so that her information


0:38:20.079,0:38:25.200

is up to date and she in her mind knows

what she wants to do you know uh there


0:38:25.200,0:38:28.160

are some moms who have come to me with a

request for


0:38:28.160,0:38:32.800

elective cesarean you know and and it's

not my job to tell her that


0:38:32.800,0:38:36.720

that's risky it's my job to tell her

about the


0:38:36.720,0:38:40.560

pros of her decision about the cons of

her decision


0:38:40.560,0:38:44.720

and if she wish and since she is already

visiting a doctor


0:38:44.720,0:38:48.079

what correct questions what kind of

questions she should be


0:38:48.079,0:38:52.320

asking the doctor so that her own

knowledge and what her own decision


0:38:52.320,0:38:56.079

making

can improve so that's what i do that's


0:38:56.079,0:39:00.480

how i work with pregnant moms

when it comes to newborn care it's a bit


0:39:00.480,0:39:05.040

more practical because

i tell them a lot about breastfeeding uh


0:39:05.040,0:39:08.720

you know it's again a lot of information

sharing and a lot of practical tips


0:39:08.720,0:39:13.280

about you know what they can do

uh then it's about uh newborn safety you


0:39:13.280,0:39:17.119

know

like uh so simple things like uh


0:39:17.119,0:39:20.800

when your baby is crying many parents as

i mentioned before they get frustrated


0:39:20.800,0:39:23.839

and they end up shaking the baby that

what's wrong with you stop crying that


0:39:23.839,0:39:27.280

is

completely wrong so i i is about car


0:39:27.280,0:39:30.000

seats and

everything so i i tell them about these


0:39:30.000,0:39:36.079

little uh safety things

and uh uh you know about diapers nappies


0:39:36.079,0:39:40.880

and you know what to expect out of a

diaper rash when it happens


0:39:40.880,0:39:44.079

what are the warning signs you know

because every baby they


0:39:44.079,0:39:48.079

they will get a rash or they will fall

ill at some point or the other


0:39:48.079,0:39:51.920

but what are the typical warning signs

which really


0:39:51.920,0:39:58.800

warrant a visit to the doctor so i i

inform them about uh those situations


0:39:58.800,0:40:02.560

and uh of course i teach them about baby

massage


0:40:02.560,0:40:06.960

and i have also started doing baby sign

language classes


0:40:06.960,0:40:11.040

so uh you know babies they're very

intelligent and they observe everything


0:40:11.040,0:40:15.280

they pick up so much from the

environment and their brains are growing


0:40:15.280,0:40:19.359

at massive speeds

but till they are around one and a half


0:40:19.359,0:40:22.880

two

they really don't have uh that ability


0:40:22.880,0:40:26.079

to form

proper words and sentences and that


0:40:26.079,0:40:31.200

causes a lot of frustration you know

in in parents as well as babies because


0:40:31.200,0:40:36.480

they have no other option but to cry

if they really want a particular toy and


0:40:36.480,0:40:39.839

the parent is not able to give

it to them and they are not able to kick


0:40:39.839,0:40:44.880

climb out of their crib to get it

ultimately they will start crying and


0:40:44.880,0:40:48.880

the parents will get frustrated and the

baby will get more upset


0:40:48.880,0:40:53.599

so that's what encouraged me to study

baby sign language


0:40:53.599,0:41:00.480

and i it's a it's a way of telling

we teach babies through rhymes through


0:41:00.480,0:41:03.440

poems

uh through a lot of fun activities


0:41:03.440,0:41:06.400

through a lot of motor sensory

activities we re


0:41:06.400,0:41:12.720

we train them to sign for certain

objects which they use in their daily


0:41:12.720,0:41:16.400

lives

and sign for certain activities also


0:41:16.400,0:41:20.400

like all done

after a meal or more after a meal so


0:41:20.400,0:41:24.640

when we teach babies that

it really reduces their frustration and


0:41:24.640,0:41:28.400

it really helps the parents too

so it's really a form of communication


0:41:28.400,0:41:32.640

between mom and child

full fledged parent intuition yes


0:41:32.640,0:41:36.079

full-fledged communication and it really

really helps you know


0:41:36.079,0:41:39.839

imagine a baby who's just crying crying

crying and the parents are like what's


0:41:39.839,0:41:43.200

wrong and if the baby can just point to

the ears


0:41:43.200,0:41:48.319

and you know make the sign of hurt that

means the ear is hurting and that's why


0:41:48.319,0:41:53.119

the baby is crying the lie life becomes

really simple the parent knows that it


0:41:53.119,0:41:55.680

the

what to say to the doctor or you know


0:41:55.680,0:42:00.800

what first aid to give to the baby

and that really works it really really


0:42:00.800,0:42:03.760

works you know

i have a very favorite story you know to


0:42:03.760,0:42:08.400

share

so um there was this uh mom and a


0:42:08.400,0:42:13.520

child uh you know they used to uh go

swimming every summer afternoon


0:42:13.520,0:42:16.960

and they used to go to their

neighborhood pool to swim


0:42:16.960,0:42:20.800

and the baby used to be in that little

pool


0:42:20.800,0:42:24.880

and every time the mom took the baby out

of the pool


0:42:24.880,0:42:28.800

you know when it was time to go home the

baby as soon as the baby got out of the


0:42:28.800,0:42:31.119

pool

and was you know kept out of the pool


0:42:31.119,0:42:34.960

the baby used to start crying

so the mother concluded that my baby


0:42:34.960,0:42:39.119

really loves swimming

and every time i have to pull the baby


0:42:39.119,0:42:42.560

out of the pool

a tantrum would come right so she used


0:42:42.560,0:42:46.240

to tell everyone that

the baby loves swimming so much and he


0:42:46.240,0:42:50.640

was around 14 months

okay 14 months of age yeah so he could


0:42:50.640,0:42:56.560

kind of walk with support

and so this pattern continued continued


0:42:56.560,0:42:59.680

and she started coming to sign language

classes as well


0:42:59.680,0:43:03.040

so uh in the sign language classes they

were taught


0:43:03.040,0:43:08.880

uh the very basic sign of heart

right so so the baby blows and that's


0:43:08.880,0:43:12.960

the sign of

a heart so uh


0:43:12.960,0:43:17.040

then the baby it continued it continued

the tantrums also continued around the


0:43:17.040,0:43:20.240

swimming pool

then one day when the mom she took the


0:43:20.240,0:43:24.720

baby out of the swimming pool

held his hand to walk towards the home


0:43:24.720,0:43:30.079

the baby actually started signing hot

and started blowing at his feet oh wow


0:43:30.079,0:43:33.599

that's when the mom

realized that it was not a tantrum


0:43:33.599,0:43:36.720

because the baby was being pulled out of

water but actually


0:43:36.720,0:43:41.359

the area around the swimming pool it

used to get very hot


0:43:41.359,0:43:46.000

because of the sun floored the the

concrete floor around the swimming pool


0:43:46.000,0:43:50.560

used to really get hot

and those little and after that the


0:43:50.560,0:43:55.440

grass continued and then the house but

the mom always wore flip-flops when


0:43:55.440,0:43:59.359

pulling the baby out of the pool but the

baby was always uh naked


0:43:59.359,0:44:03.280

uh feet when pulling we didn't wear any

slippers or any shoes


0:44:03.280,0:44:07.280

when being pulled out of the pool so the

baby actually the moment the


0:44:07.280,0:44:11.359

little feet hit the floor the baby used

to really the feet used to burn and the


0:44:11.359,0:44:15.280

baby used to

you know like really cry and cry but


0:44:15.280,0:44:18.400

there was no way the mom could guess

that it's just


0:44:18.400,0:44:23.359

those five six steps that is causing the

baby so much agony oh wow


0:44:23.359,0:44:26.800

so it's these little things that really

really


0:44:26.800,0:44:30.240

you know we just think that all the

babies are just being difficult or


0:44:30.240,0:44:33.119

they're just

being spoiled i don't know maybe they're


0:44:33.119,0:44:37.440

just trying to act

funny but no they they really have their


0:44:37.440,0:44:41.119

reasons

that's incredible to think that that


0:44:41.119,0:44:44.640

child or that baby was able to

communicate that actually his


0:44:44.640,0:44:48.240

feet were too hot yeah really interested

by this


0:44:48.240,0:44:55.680

it's really incredible to hear yeah

so i think this is a great place to end


0:44:55.680,0:45:00.400

pranjel so where's the best place

um for our listeners to find you and


0:45:00.400,0:45:04.000

how's the best play or where's the best

place to contact you


0:45:04.000,0:45:08.000

so i have a website it's uh


0:45:09.319,0:45:14.079

www.boomandbeyond.info

so or you can always drop me


0:45:14.079,0:45:19.359

an email at pranjal at

movementbeyond.info


0:45:19.359,0:45:26.800

i'm also on instagram uh my handle is

uh boom underscore and underscore beyond


0:45:26.800,0:45:32.960

so i'm i'm quite active on social media

so it won't be hard to you know catch me


0:45:32.960,0:45:37.760

somewhere i think i'll pop all of those

details in the show notes so


0:45:37.760,0:45:41.520

um if any of our listeners want to

actually get in contact it's really easy


0:45:41.520,0:45:44.560

they can find you in the show notes and

just click the links and they'll be able


0:45:44.560,0:45:47.520

to

get directly to all of those places and


0:45:47.520,0:45:50.880

i'll make sure that they're all in there

i want to thank you again for your time


0:45:50.880,0:45:55.359

today it was really

um informative and um lovely hearing


0:45:55.359,0:45:58.480

from you as well

and i'm sure we'll keep in touch and


0:45:58.480,0:46:02.480

maybe more to come

thank you so much it was my pleasure it


0:46:02.480,0:46:08.079

was lovely you know being on the show

thank you