The Mama Podcast

02. Rebecca Murphy, Midwife: The pandemic made me stronger. Learnings and experiences from working frontline with Covid-19 mamas

July 27, 2020 Sumayya Sarwar
The Mama Podcast
02. Rebecca Murphy, Midwife: The pandemic made me stronger. Learnings and experiences from working frontline with Covid-19 mamas
Show Notes Transcript

Rebecca has such a warm and loving energy, she is able to find the positive in everything. She looks at the recent situation from a fresh perspective and has already done an incredible job reflecting and extracting some important lessons for all of us.

We also talk about Rebecca's role now, what future maternity care looks like in the UAE and how this will have a positive impact on all mamas and the children of the next generation.

Find Rebecca on Instagram @midwife_rebecca_dxb_ab

We love hearing from you, contact us, email: hello@mymamaapp.com

Download the Mama ME app on Apple or Android, Find the links on the website
www.mymamaapp.com

Social media:
Instagram @mymamaapp



Intro music: www.bensound.com

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hi mama you're listening to the mama

podcast it's Sumayya here the co-founder


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of mama ME app

mama me is the first app to exclusively


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connect mothers across the middle east

connect with like-minded mamas and


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create lifelong friendships

at mama we are all about connecting


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mamas to empower women

so let's join together and make this


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mission a reality

in today's episode i am joined by the


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wonderful rebecca murphy registered

midwife


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with amana baby she's been working

incredibly hard over the last few months


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working front line with covid positive

patients


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rebecca is able to find the positive in

everything


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she shares her journey over the last few

months on what maternity care will look


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like in the future

i'm truly grateful rebecca managed to


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find some time to speak to me during her

busy work day


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keeping this in mind i apologize for the

compromise sound quality


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i'm so excited to speak to you and learn

more about midwifery


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and what you've been up to over the last

few months oh you're so welcome i've


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been dying to catch up with you as well

it's been so long


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well it feels long doesn't it like it

was the longest four months of my life


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yeah so um what have you been up to over

the last four months


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so i suppose it was actually when we did

our recording when we did our ig live


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i think that was the turning point for

me so we were get all


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like the news was breaking on cover 19

and it was like


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what's going to happen to pregnant women

and what's going to happen to us all and


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it was all very new

and i remember coming off that program


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dude the id live with you and and coming

off and being like you know


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what is happening like it all happened

so fast


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and i remember like i had a friend who

works in infection control and i was


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like you know i'm not putting on the

mask until she puts on the mask and when


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she put on the mask i was like all right

oh here we go


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so um yeah so since then basically

it just overnight in the hospitals


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exploded like i think everyone was in

such a panic


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that we had like a mass presentation to

hospital with people with kind of


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symptoms

and at the time it was just mass testing


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it was like test everyone and anything

you know what i mean


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but keep it hushed as well it was all

kind of a little bit less test but keep


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it quiet we really don't know what the

situation's gonna happen or


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how it's gonna unfold and then basically

it just exploded and it out of nowhere


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and i think

it was i don't know why i suppose it was


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just you know we'll never really know

why or how


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this all happened and traveled so fast

but


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and you know my housemates then in the

aviation industry they were grounded and


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then

i was pulled into this um corona program


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so

as you know basically i work at home


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care in in

dubai so we offer home care services and


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basically you know wounded tomb was what

i call it


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so we were approached by the department

of health to basically


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help assist in keeping the code

positive patients at home now this is in


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abu dhabi i i work in dubai but my

company is abu dhabi underway


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so that's basically department of health

said you know these asymptomatic


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patients

and we need to keep them at home and


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people have just delivered

who can't attend hospitals or can't go


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into the field hospitals or the

isolation hotels


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and we need to keep them at home and so

they


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had an electronic tag placed on them and

then my nurses would go out


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and swab them in the comfort of their

own home and every five days until they


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received two negative results

so yeah it was kind of people of


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determination pregnant people

people were asymptomatic people who we


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could keep at home and not kind of bed

block


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and the hospitals because the hospitals

as you can imagine just under enormous


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pressure

and so i think we did an amazing job it


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was probably

well i can safely say it was the


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toughest

time in my career as a midwife and and


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it like it was character building i

suppose was the only word for it


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but it was just an utter it was with

pandemonium really wasn't it it was just


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panic i think everybody just panicked

and it was the fear of the unknown


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um like i remember just being so scared

but now i look back and i was like


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i was scared when there was like 10 000

cases when it got to like a million i


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was like ah sure it's fine we'll be fine

but um yeah it was very it was different


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i think everybody was just so nervous it

was just the fear of the unknown


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so i didn't think it's kind of it really

has calmed down in the uae so


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it's not as bad as it was like the peak

i'll never forget i will never forget


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the amount of referrals we were getting

in


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and you know the amount of pregnant

women that were delivering and


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you know we were on such a rush to try

and get them negative before they


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delivered

and but yeah we had some amazing stories


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as well

and it was kind of nice it was you know


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it was actually reassuring for me

working in this project because i would


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see a lot of the moms who are positive

deliver and the babies would be negative


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that's incredible unbelievable because

we spoke about that before


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all this obviously happened and that's

what we talked about what didn't we


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that what would happen if someone was

positive and what are the chances that


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the baby would be positive

and um so that's really interesting that


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the

mom would be positive but the baby would


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be negative and how did

i mean how did labor differ for moms


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that had like

were quality positive yeah so i suppose


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that that was the fear like obviously we

were endeavoring to try and get


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so in the uae we were lucky in that we

were swabbing all the time so we were


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trying to swap these mothers in order to

get two consecutive negatives because


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once they were

two consecutive negatives they were


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deemed negative and treated as

negative but with a history of code and


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but for those who were positive then it

was very much


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it was just preparation and but the

thing is as you know labor so


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unpredictable

and what was funny was like i can handle


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heart say now when we were talking on

the ig live like i was given all these


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facts and figures and i really thought

like yeah like


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we knew it but we hadn't claimed like we

had no idea what was coming


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and so i think the biggest thing was

just trying to plan and prepare for


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these cobra patients coming in and as

you know like in the middle of the night


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and stuff that's when

babies deliver now again i wasn't in the


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direct front line of the labor ward what

my friends were and what they were


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saying was you know

having your covered rooms ready and then


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like five cupboard ladies landed in and

you only have three covered rooms and


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you know so basically it was just

increased


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personal protective gear you know i

think in the beginning


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they were potentially over treating a

lot of women and


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i know some women did report back and

say they felt kind of you know


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what would be the words like they just

felt like you know they were covered


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positive and everyone was afraid of them

where by the end of it you know and even


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bringing my friends in australia and

ireland and getting their accounts up


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but they were like oh sure it's brand

should cover positive we'll be fine you


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know once we got kind of entrusted that

the ppe worked and


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everyone relaxed a little bit but look i

think the biggest thing was not it was


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the support and labor

um and that was across the board it's a


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very isolating time for anybody

and having a culvert positive was an


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isolating time for

anyone but imagine having a baby and not


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being allowed to have your partner in

and so in dubai like there was kind of


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there were some hospitals that weren't

allowing partners and for cesarean


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sections and things and this was a lot

of my work then was counseling through


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them through it

and kind of empowering preparing them


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for what was to come because to be

honest the rules were changing by the


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day we had no idea what was going to

happen you know the next day they were


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allowed in then they weren't allowed in

and it wasn't they weren't doing it on


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purpose they were just trying to follow

best practice


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but that was changing literally like the

weather so and


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they were some of the problems that we

were encountering so we were trying to


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get these women

um in and out of hospital as quick and


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and which was good that we had our home

isolation program that we could get them


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home with their babies quickly you know

and once they got home with their babies


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if they were covered positive you guys

would then take over


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and sort of see to the mom afterwards

well as long as the baby was then the


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babies were often admitted to nicky and

this was again


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an area of hype whereby it was you know

when we did hear kind of horror stories


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and things of babies being admitted to

nicu


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and and things like that but again it

was all speculation and like i said in


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the last igtv like

again you don't know that that clinical


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circumstance there may have been

something else there that we didn't know


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but there was yeah there was accounts of

you know people the hands on hearts and


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my people didn't know

people doctors as well they weren't 100


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sure on what the best

method of treatment was but i can safely


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say now everyone has a bit more of an

understanding but yeah babies were


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admitted to nicu and there was

separation you know from delivery and


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things that we we've had to

work on with mums and i think we'll get


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into it later on but a lot of the

post-traumatic stress of it


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but once they were delivered and all was

well and the baby was negative but the


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mom was positive yet we could bring them

home


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and they were they were isolated at home

and


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but it's which is a great thing to be

able to do however


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it's very isolating when it's just you

and the baby in a room by yourself


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you know i mean that's so challenging

right


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because the early days of motherhood are

challenging anyway


0:09:03.200,0:09:06.399

um on a normal like in a normal

circumstance in under


0:09:06.399,0:09:10.320

normal circumstances so i can and i

can't even imagine how that must have


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felt for

like i think like my little heart went


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out because obviously i was doing loads

of


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loads of it was wasn't just pregnant or

procedural women but my heart really


0:09:18.880,0:09:22.080

went out to them like you know and can

you imagine being postnatal and then


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having to isolate

or another of the big thing in dubai a


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lot of the women went into the isolation

hotels


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you know and it was just such hard go

and it was so hard going for these


0:09:32.880,0:09:36.800

pregnant and post-natal women

and your hormones are flying anyway the


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best of times and then you're in the

middle of this pandemic we don't know


0:09:39.680,0:09:42.399

when we're going to get to see our

families our families during the uk


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in ireland you're in a hotel room by

yourself


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you're thinking about am i going to give

birth or you've just given birth and


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you're trying to breastfeed

and i just was so amazed at like i'm


0:09:54.160,0:09:58.000

saying to you

how the women just like


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stood up and they just got on with it

and they were so brave


0:10:01.360,0:10:04.800

like they really like i was saying to

you it's as if like the pandemic


0:10:04.800,0:10:08.800

pandemic empowered them like they had no

choice but they just had to do it and it


0:10:08.800,0:10:10.959

was like

i would ring them i'd be so nervous i


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wouldn't be sleeping and like thinking

of them and i'd bring them and they'd be


0:10:13.279,0:10:15.440

like

oh we're fine we're doing great and i'd


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be like oh my god like you're amazing

you know what i mean


0:10:18.640,0:10:21.920

i'm so worried about them yeah i can

imagine because


0:10:21.920,0:10:25.279

i mean i would be exactly the same being

on the other end but you're right i mean


0:10:25.279,0:10:29.680

women just find this inner power

especially like moms right you just find


0:10:29.680,0:10:33.680

this inner power to look after your

child um


0:10:33.680,0:10:38.800

it yeah it's such an incredible um like

thought that they could just get on with


0:10:38.800,0:10:42.640

it and that's

like i said to you before like one of my


0:10:42.640,0:10:46.399

favorite parts of like being a midwife

is looking at a woman who


0:10:46.399,0:10:50.160

can't she says to me oh look i stubbed

my toe and i'm screaming how am i gonna


0:10:50.160,0:10:53.279

manage labor and then she's like this

absolute warrior in labor


0:10:53.279,0:10:56.640

and it was the same thing here like you

know everyone was


0:10:56.640,0:11:00.880

so worried about all these you know

being in isolation or being over


0:11:00.880,0:11:04.240

positive so that when it happened to

them they were like


0:11:04.240,0:11:07.680

you know as if their biggest fear had

happened and they were okay and


0:11:07.680,0:11:11.440

you know they bonded with their babies

and they really got into a good mind


0:11:11.440,0:11:14.160

frame because they had

time to think about like what they


0:11:14.160,0:11:16.320

wanted and how they wanted their labor

to go


0:11:16.320,0:11:19.440

and then even when they had the baby and

they were in isolation like you know


0:11:19.440,0:11:22.560

it's kind of

it's nice to think that they there was


0:11:22.560,0:11:26.320

no distractions it was just

them and their baby and they had to i


0:11:26.320,0:11:28.800

remember ringing this one woman and i

was like


0:11:28.800,0:11:31.440

she'd only delivered and she was in

hotel and i was trying to get her out of


0:11:31.440,0:11:34.800

the hotel and back into her family home

and she's like i think how's the


0:11:34.800,0:11:36.880

breastfeeding like you know is it going

hard


0:11:36.880,0:11:39.920

thinking because that's what we're

always so used to is the breastfeeding


0:11:39.920,0:11:42.399

troubles and she's like

you know it's amazing she's like it's


0:11:42.399,0:11:45.279

fine it's just working she's like i have

nothing better to do just to breastfeed


0:11:45.279,0:11:48.560

my child and i was like oh my god you're

amazing


0:11:48.560,0:11:52.399

and she was like yeah she goes it's like

it is horrible and it's lonely but she


0:11:52.399,0:11:56.240

goes i'm just so empowered like i'm

feeding my baby my baby's negative


0:11:56.240,0:12:01.360

like she's like i just

it was so it was never i was i couldn't


0:12:01.360,0:12:04.399

believe how positive she was

no pun intended were you allowed to go


0:12:04.399,0:12:08.800

in to see that woman or would you have

to do this over the phone and video call


0:12:08.800,0:12:12.800

so this was over the phone em but i

would have gone in if they wanted to me


0:12:12.800,0:12:16.560

like we can go into them

and absolutely but there was no need


0:12:16.560,0:12:19.040

like i have to say they were

unbelievable but the women just


0:12:19.040,0:12:22.839

cracked on and i think i was saying to

you as well like we were discussing


0:12:22.839,0:12:26.480

befores

we often put so much pressure on


0:12:26.480,0:12:30.079

ourselves to

to conform and to the stat you know to


0:12:30.079,0:12:33.519

keep up with the joneses

that and i think i can speak for all of


0:12:33.519,0:12:38.079

us that when we got back to basics in

pandemic and like had to sit


0:12:38.079,0:12:42.880

and like cut out all the distractions

it's amazing what women can do and


0:12:42.880,0:12:46.560

achieve

and like the strength that they find and


0:12:46.560,0:12:49.839

like when distractions and we're out

when you're taken away from the rat race


0:12:49.839,0:12:54.480

and everybody's just

like bare and vulnerable like what women


0:12:54.480,0:12:58.480

can do is unbelievable

like it's unbelievable and i'm so proud


0:12:58.480,0:13:02.079

of all my loved one mummies

that's such a powerful sort of powerful


0:13:02.079,0:13:06.800

thought and

crying a little bit it's just mad like


0:13:06.800,0:13:13.839

it was just really a stressful stress

full time they just came out on top


0:13:13.839,0:13:19.440

and you mentioned the ptsd earlier so

yeah is that sort of do you feel that


0:13:19.440,0:13:24.399

some of them may have suffered from ptsd

is that why you mentioned


0:13:24.560,0:13:28.959

i have a for them no i definitely i

would be worried about mental health and


0:13:28.959,0:13:31.839

i think

you know i think a lot of us have kind


0:13:31.839,0:13:34.079

of forgotten like even i was looking at

like


0:13:34.079,0:13:36.800

scenes of dubai and lockdown this

morning and i was like i can't believe


0:13:36.800,0:13:40.560

we all survived that or like did that

you know i mean we were on 24-hour


0:13:40.560,0:13:43.360

lockdown you were not allowed to leave

your home even for


0:13:43.360,0:13:46.800

groceries yeah and i remember thinking

like how are pregnant


0:13:46.800,0:13:50.240

not even pregnant or postnatal like the

more kind of toddlers and walkers you


0:13:50.240,0:13:53.519

know them like babies

or like even with kids like how are they


0:13:53.519,0:13:56.320

doing this

and again it's this unbelievable


0:13:56.320,0:13:59.600

strength that women find and like when

you have no choice and you have to get


0:13:59.600,0:14:03.120

on with it

like the human mind and body is amazing


0:14:03.120,0:14:05.279

but i do think a lot of women and men

were in


0:14:05.279,0:14:09.279

autopilot and i think a lot of people

have blocked it out and i'd just be


0:14:09.279,0:14:14.000

worried for maybe triggers in the future

that would bring them back to such a


0:14:14.000,0:14:18.240

sort of setting time really so i do

think there'll be a lot of kind of ptsd


0:14:18.240,0:14:21.279

and mental health that we're still very

new like we're still not really out of


0:14:21.279,0:14:25.040

it just yet

and but i feel like we there will be and


0:14:25.040,0:14:30.000

i think a lot of nurses will have ptsd

and physicians and doctors and midwives


0:14:30.000,0:14:32.480

you know

they would have seen some terrible


0:14:32.480,0:14:36.399

things so i think

across the board parents and and


0:14:36.399,0:14:39.040

healthcare workers alike

everyone is going to just need to have a


0:14:39.040,0:14:42.240

little bit of a debrief which i think is

something i'd love to get involved and i


0:14:42.240,0:14:44.399

think me and

a few colleagues of mine were talking


0:14:44.399,0:14:48.959

about like debriefs and stuff

and maybe not just yet because even in


0:14:48.959,0:14:51.839

healthcare you know takes a month or two

to


0:14:51.839,0:14:56.480

to let your emotions settle but i think

a lot of us probably won't remember


0:14:56.480,0:15:00.000

a lot of what happened it's nearly like

a grief like you know


0:15:00.000,0:15:03.440

totally i think that'd be really

powerful right getting together a group


0:15:03.440,0:15:06.000

of people maybe some psychologists who

could


0:15:06.000,0:15:09.199

support in debriefing the frontline

staff because


0:15:09.199,0:15:11.920

i mean we wouldn't have been able to do

it with the front line without the


0:15:11.920,0:15:14.800

frontline staff i mean they're

incredible people to be able to


0:15:14.800,0:15:18.880

like put themselves forward and actually

put themselves at risk to help


0:15:18.880,0:15:23.120

others i think that really does i i'm

sure you


0:15:23.120,0:15:27.920

like you can vouch for this but a lot of

them do sort of go into the profession


0:15:27.920,0:15:31.839

because they want to help and and it's

incredible that they just stand up and


0:15:31.839,0:15:36.639

they just do it

you know like it but you know yourself


0:15:36.639,0:15:39.680

it is selfless but even look at the

parents with the children like


0:15:39.680,0:15:42.959

you they just stood up and talked to it

like you know


0:15:42.959,0:15:47.440

they had no choice there was no schools

they had to work and homeschool their


0:15:47.440,0:15:52.320

kids you know i mean

i think everybody stood up and just


0:15:52.320,0:15:55.360

it was a time that i said that everybody

really twitched into their inner


0:15:55.360,0:15:57.519

strength

yes we've all had wobbles and we've all


0:15:57.519,0:16:00.720

like even me now i'm so wobbly talking

about it i feel so emotional about it


0:16:00.720,0:16:03.600

because i'm so proud of everyone

but like it was probably the hardest


0:16:03.600,0:16:07.199

time for a lot of people and like the

inner strength that everybody has found


0:16:07.199,0:16:11.519

just to to get through it and it's so

good to finally see us coming out the


0:16:11.519,0:16:14.160

other end

like it's not over yet by no means it's


0:16:14.160,0:16:19.120

not over yet but like

families parents women men all health


0:16:19.120,0:16:22.079

care workers all of us deserve a clap in

the back like it was just


0:16:22.079,0:16:27.440

such unprecedented times and we've all

found this unbelievable inner strength


0:16:27.440,0:16:31.519

like that we never thought would happen

yeah you're totally right because who


0:16:31.519,0:16:33.920

would have thought that we would be in

this situation


0:16:33.920,0:16:36.720

you know we often laugh i think about

our poor kids we'll be sitting in


0:16:36.720,0:16:39.440

history learning about the pandemic of

2020.


0:16:39.440,0:16:43.839

it's a heavy chapter for them isn't it a

heavy big chapter for the exams


0:16:43.839,0:16:48.240

but um yeah i just think yeah a debrief

is needed for everyone


0:16:48.240,0:16:54.160

for everyone yeah that's so imaginable

imagine being post-natal on top of that


0:16:54.160,0:16:57.600

and with your hormones um sort of flying

all over the place


0:16:57.600,0:17:01.920

it must have been so challenging i know

but honestly


0:17:01.920,0:17:05.360

when i thought they would fall apart at

first they literally rose like little


0:17:05.360,0:17:07.679

phoenix's they were i was so proud of

them


0:17:07.679,0:17:12.959

do you worry that this may

it may be just because um they were sort


0:17:12.959,0:17:17.199

of dealing with the

shock in inverted commas and they


0:17:17.199,0:17:22.559

will potentially do you worry that it

may sort of come up later


0:17:22.559,0:17:26.959

yeah i think for anyone like it is i

suppose like i said i don't mean to call


0:17:26.959,0:17:31.919

it a grief but it was like this

as that unprecedented time like in


0:17:31.919,0:17:35.200

someone's life where there was so much

change and like there was nearly a death


0:17:35.200,0:17:39.440

of like our social life and a death of

of what our labor would have been like


0:17:39.440,0:17:42.000

it was your first child

but it was like not how you wanted to


0:17:42.000,0:17:44.240

have it or your second job whatever like

it's just


0:17:44.240,0:17:47.840

a death of an expectation really of how

life was going to be or what was going


0:17:47.840,0:17:50.400

to happen

and that's the control thing so when we


0:17:50.400,0:17:54.880

don't have that control

then we panic and you know i think we


0:17:54.880,0:17:59.360

are a lot of us are still on autopilot

and you can't run at that high


0:17:59.360,0:18:02.080

adrenaline

level that we all have been and not come


0:18:02.080,0:18:05.520

down at some point

like so i do think yes other people will


0:18:05.520,0:18:09.440

will come down gradually and people are

already on their way down kind of


0:18:09.440,0:18:12.480

you know through meditation or whatever

works for them or counseling but i do


0:18:12.480,0:18:15.200

yeah i would worry about some parents

and i'd worry about some


0:18:15.200,0:18:18.240

i'd worry about us all really we all

probably have to tap into what's going


0:18:18.240,0:18:20.880

to

get us back on track and kind of live in


0:18:20.880,0:18:24.799

a little bit more of a

steadier pace than what we've been


0:18:24.799,0:18:27.919

living the last little while

but for us do you know what it was for


0:18:27.919,0:18:30.400

our generations maya we've touched on

this before


0:18:30.400,0:18:35.760

it was control and like we suddenly the

control was taken away from us


0:18:35.760,0:18:41.840

and you know what we've done so well

and it just proves that even if the


0:18:41.840,0:18:43.919

controls taken away that we're still

okay


0:18:43.919,0:18:48.080

you know meaning that you can yeah

millennials have definitely had it tough


0:18:48.080,0:18:51.120

right

because there's been so many challenges


0:18:51.120,0:18:55.679

we've been thrown through our lives

um but this definitely has to be by far


0:18:55.679,0:18:59.600

the biggest

um of the challenges did you find a lot


0:18:59.600,0:19:03.200

of your moms that were giving birth were

in the millennial kind of


0:19:03.200,0:19:06.080

yeah do you know what well i suppose

like because i was working in abu dhabi


0:19:06.080,0:19:08.559

like the cohort was a lot more local so

then


0:19:08.559,0:19:12.080

and there was a lot more younger um kind

of well younger and


0:19:12.080,0:19:15.440

like i said an inverse of commons like

they were


0:19:15.440,0:19:18.960

younger than maybe what i would

previously worked with in australia and


0:19:18.960,0:19:22.640

that so

they were in like their early 20s and


0:19:22.640,0:19:26.720

so yeah but you know what i found as

well is that


0:19:26.720,0:19:30.080

i find that generation have no

expectation either to some degree like


0:19:30.080,0:19:33.440

it's kind of doing circles

like it seems to be people in the 90s


0:19:33.440,0:19:38.320

are like

millennials but then the people


0:19:38.320,0:19:42.480

thousand babies who were as old as those

we may feel they are having babies you


0:19:42.480,0:19:45.200

know i mean

they had no expectations and they were


0:19:45.200,0:19:48.559

just getting on with it

you know so it was a bit of a mix but i


0:19:48.559,0:19:53.280

think definitely

definitely it was like


0:19:53.280,0:19:57.840

i feel it was like we were at war and

like people just got on with it


0:19:57.840,0:20:02.400

and they really talked to the to the

task event


0:20:02.400,0:20:07.039

and i guess you're obviously your

reality of the situation was very


0:20:07.039,0:20:11.440

different to what a lot of us felt right

because we weren't on the front line we


0:20:11.440,0:20:13.679

weren't seeing all these positive

patients


0:20:13.679,0:20:18.159

all the time so for us it's what you'd

see in the news or what you'd read in


0:20:18.159,0:20:22.559

like you know on an art in an article it

was i guess for you is probably a


0:20:22.559,0:20:25.200

slightly skewed version of reality

because


0:20:25.200,0:20:28.320

you were seeing sort of what was

actually happening from a frontline


0:20:28.320,0:20:31.120

perspective so i

i can imagine like it must have felt a


0:20:31.120,0:20:34.159

bit like

a bit like you were at walmart it was


0:20:34.159,0:20:37.280

when i was going up and down the shake

side road and and checking through


0:20:37.280,0:20:39.280

borders and stuff and i remember like i

was


0:20:39.280,0:20:44.320

always working so many hours and i

remember i was about to drift off


0:20:44.320,0:20:48.400

to sleep and i started laughing and i

was like what is going on like what are


0:20:48.400,0:20:52.080

we doing like what is this and i know it

was for a greater good but it was just


0:20:52.080,0:20:54.400

so

alien to me i just couldn't understand


0:20:54.400,0:20:59.360

like what was happening

to see dubai empty like it was crazy but


0:20:59.360,0:21:02.960

it was

yeah i have to say it was i hopefully


0:21:02.960,0:21:06.080

will never go through it again

but like i said when you're in your


0:21:06.080,0:21:10.320

toughest toughest times

honestly you find the strength from


0:21:10.320,0:21:13.600

somewhere that i don't know that

i don't know how these moms did it i


0:21:13.600,0:21:17.600

mean yeah and hats off to you to

to be able to find that inner strength


0:21:17.600,0:21:21.120

as well to be able to do the long shifts

not sleep much and


0:21:21.120,0:21:24.640

still support all these women and really

support them


0:21:24.640,0:21:28.080

through sort of the prenatal and

postnatal as well um


0:21:28.080,0:21:31.280

are your services now um have they

stopped


0:21:31.280,0:21:35.440

and are you sort of more i mean i don't

even know what normal is now but are you


0:21:35.440,0:21:39.840

back to the new normal

like i think our services have taken off


0:21:39.840,0:21:43.679

more than ever

and and that was kind of so home care


0:21:43.679,0:21:47.039

obviously in the uae is like a new

enough concept but


0:21:47.039,0:21:50.880

you know it's proven to be so beneficial

and again this is what i was saying


0:21:50.880,0:21:55.120

to you you know we want to try and make

labor and delivery and postnatal


0:21:55.120,0:21:57.760

antenatal care

more normal here like obviously it's


0:21:57.760,0:22:01.520

medical model and it's you know medical

model is fantastic in its own way


0:22:01.520,0:22:05.120

but you know we want to incorporate the

midwifery lead and to make things


0:22:05.120,0:22:09.039

pair things back to normal and to make

it i was going to say less millennial


0:22:09.039,0:22:12.480

but that's a bit cheeky just make it

worse i mean just normalize labor


0:22:12.480,0:22:16.960

integrity so anyway

we our services back to normal yes like


0:22:16.960,0:22:21.679

obviously people are still apprehensive

about us coming to their home we're


0:22:21.679,0:22:25.679

swapped quite regularly here at amanda

and amanda is obviously so used to doing


0:22:25.679,0:22:30.799

home care that we're used to it

and with the pp and stuff like you know


0:22:30.799,0:22:34.159

we've kind of been taking these

precautions for years anyway so


0:22:34.159,0:22:38.480

we're back to normal yes people are

sometimes slow enough to let us back in


0:22:38.480,0:22:42.000

and that's okay and like that at your

own time people will


0:22:42.000,0:22:45.120

you know um that's another important

message as well it's whenever


0:22:45.120,0:22:49.120

whenever you feel ready is your turn is

is fine you know what i mean i think


0:22:49.120,0:22:52.880

at the moment with a lot of conflict

over people going to hospitals for


0:22:52.880,0:22:56.240

you know appointments and people kind of

returning too quickly to work or


0:22:56.240,0:22:58.799

whatever like

whenever work three works for you and we


0:22:58.799,0:23:01.520

do have to try and find the new norm

like you said


0:23:01.520,0:23:04.799

what is the new norm i don't know

everybody's still in a little bit of


0:23:04.799,0:23:07.039

shock

you know the threat of a second wave is


0:23:07.039,0:23:11.919

coming again i think it's just

being as kind of conscientious as you


0:23:11.919,0:23:16.000

can to yourself and

your neighbors you know what i mean and


0:23:16.000,0:23:19.200

and your colleagues and things just

being conscientious i think


0:23:19.200,0:23:23.760

yeah so let's touch on the amano baby

model then because i think that was


0:23:23.760,0:23:27.919

really interesting

um when you explained that earlier um


0:23:27.919,0:23:31.200

about how what your services are i mean

you


0:23:31.200,0:23:34.559

are a midwife and you have been a

midwife for


0:23:34.559,0:23:39.679

how long now like well 10 years

including training but i'm qualified six


0:23:39.679,0:23:44.559

so i mean this is a fairly new model for

the uae where


0:23:44.559,0:23:47.840

you would have this of the prenatal

midwife and then


0:23:47.840,0:23:51.600

you'd see the same midwife postnatally

i'd love for you to sort of


0:23:51.600,0:23:55.039

just yeah dig into that a little bit

deeper and actually tell me


0:23:55.039,0:24:01.360

what that looks like so i suppose

you know in ireland where i trained it


0:24:01.360,0:24:04.240

was all made with free lead like

obviously and it's the same with nhs and


0:24:04.240,0:24:08.320

the hsc in ireland and the nhs is very

midwifery-led with the obstetricians


0:24:08.320,0:24:11.279

there

you know there's always been that kind


0:24:11.279,0:24:14.240

of co-dependency on each other as a

profession


0:24:14.240,0:24:17.919

and then when i went to australia i kind

of worked more in the private sector


0:24:17.919,0:24:20.720

which was a little bit of an eye opener

and was a little bit different


0:24:20.720,0:24:24.159

because you know because you're still

very much valued as a midwife your


0:24:24.159,0:24:28.000

role is a little bit different but the

supporting aspect never changes the care


0:24:28.000,0:24:30.799

never changes

but it's the ability it's the continuity


0:24:30.799,0:24:35.039

of care that changes i suppose from

different countries so in the uae it's


0:24:35.039,0:24:38.960

obviously medical model of care

which is great and obviously midwives


0:24:38.960,0:24:45.120

are in the hospitals but as you know

it's the lack of continuity and i think


0:24:45.120,0:24:48.880

like they say it takes a

it takes a village to raise a family and


0:24:48.880,0:24:51.440

that's maybe one

thing we're missing in the expat


0:24:51.440,0:24:55.360

community is that

we need more of that kind of community


0:24:55.360,0:24:57.919

vibe

and what's huge in the nhs and what


0:24:57.919,0:25:00.000

we're trying to implement is the irish

like public


0:25:00.000,0:25:04.000

health nurse system or like the health

visitor role in the uk which


0:25:04.000,0:25:07.520

that's basically what my job is here is

trying to implement like


0:25:07.520,0:25:11.919

womb to school so like literally

antenatal all the way to


0:25:11.919,0:25:16.000

school and developmental checks things

that aren't readily available here in


0:25:16.000,0:25:19.360

the uae because

of some of the services orange is


0:25:19.360,0:25:23.039

established so what we're trying to do

is that you know you'll meet


0:25:23.039,0:25:27.440

me the dream would be that you'd meet me

like pregnant basically we do your


0:25:27.440,0:25:30.480

antenatal

classes yes i may not be there for your


0:25:30.480,0:25:33.600

labor because

in the uae we can't do agency midwife


0:25:33.600,0:25:37.600

works well look we could it's starting

but i wouldn't necessarily be there for


0:25:37.600,0:25:41.039

the labor i could be labor support but i

wouldn't deliver the baby but again


0:25:41.039,0:25:44.400

you know you have a good trust in ob gyn

at that stage


0:25:44.400,0:25:49.039

and so you know the labor is the one day

but what you need is the continued


0:25:49.039,0:25:52.640

support from your

midwifery team the days after you


0:25:52.640,0:25:56.799

deliver you know the lactation support

all the way up to the like you know your


0:25:56.799,0:26:00.000

developmental checks and all the way up

to the baby going to school


0:26:00.000,0:26:04.720

because you know i've spoken to too many

kind of um nurseries and things out here


0:26:04.720,0:26:07.840

and some of the babies don't necessarily

get that developmental stuff that we


0:26:07.840,0:26:10.559

just take for granted at home in the uk

and ireland


0:26:10.559,0:26:13.840

so that's what we're trying to do with a

man of the baby is implement


0:26:13.840,0:26:17.840

the nhs and the hsc's public health

health visitor role here that we


0:26:17.840,0:26:21.039

you know we are a little community you

have what's here


0:26:21.039,0:26:24.799

yes we may not be delivering your baby

but we can do absolutely everything else


0:26:24.799,0:26:27.840

and we can be there to support you and i

think that's what we need


0:26:27.840,0:26:32.039

we need a support group we need a

community and we need to just have that


0:26:32.039,0:26:37.279

continuity of care

i totally because we know yeah it works


0:26:37.279,0:26:42.159

yeah i mean it's a proven model in the

uk because the uk has had the nhs for


0:26:42.159,0:26:46.880

for how many years now and the midwifery

model has been something that's been


0:26:46.880,0:26:50.000

used in i mean you probably know exactly

how long but


0:26:50.000,0:26:53.919

it's been around in the uk for a very

long time the midwifery model


0:26:53.919,0:26:58.559

um do you sort of then have set days

that you would go and see the mom


0:26:58.559,0:27:02.559

afterwards and the baby of course like

would you would you see them


0:27:02.559,0:27:06.240

day one day three days do you know what

it is as well i suppose we're very


0:27:06.240,0:27:09.919

honest or what we're trying to be is

very honest at the moment like okay yes


0:27:09.919,0:27:13.600

i obviously want you to

to have a certain amount of days because


0:27:13.600,0:27:19.039

it's good to see you consistently

but again we don't want we're not not


0:27:19.039,0:27:22.080

we're a profit and we need to make you

know we need to


0:27:22.080,0:27:26.720

to make money however i'm not going to

sell you a big package i don't need it


0:27:26.720,0:27:28.880

you know what i mean

like we want to be really honest and


0:27:28.880,0:27:31.600

truthful with you you know if you need

lactation support


0:27:31.600,0:27:34.880

i'll be honest and say you know i might

not need to see you tomorrow but i


0:27:34.880,0:27:37.520

should probably come back you know when

the milk comes in and it all changes


0:27:37.520,0:27:40.159

again

so i think it's been it's worse you know


0:27:40.159,0:27:43.360

okay yes we have insurance and we have

that's the business side of it


0:27:43.360,0:27:46.720

but at the end of the day we're midwives

and like i was saying to you smile like


0:27:46.720,0:27:51.600

that's the reason i went into this i

want to see the women succeed i want to


0:27:51.600,0:27:54.080

see them

empowered i want them to turn around and


0:27:54.080,0:27:56.720

be like oh my god i did it i breastfed

my baby


0:27:56.720,0:28:00.399

so if that means you only need one visit

from us then that's fine but if you need


0:28:00.399,0:28:04.880

20 visits from us yeah absolutely

we'll do it as well but it's just being


0:28:04.880,0:28:07.279

honest

and truthful and it was difficult for me


0:28:07.279,0:28:10.720

coming over here you know having to get

into the business side of things it's so


0:28:10.720,0:28:13.360

alien to us when it's all for free at

home


0:28:13.360,0:28:17.279

but again i think if you're honest with

women


0:28:17.279,0:28:20.960

you know that's all they want and that's

and that's where you


0:28:20.960,0:28:26.320

build your trust you know yeah 100

agree with that because i mean part of


0:28:26.320,0:28:30.080

the reason why i started the app as well

that the support was something that i


0:28:30.080,0:28:33.919

felt was lacking afterwards

um out in the uae and i think it's


0:28:33.919,0:28:38.000

incredible if you could have

a professional like a midwife who can


0:28:38.000,0:28:41.120

support you through that journey

afterwards and like you say some women


0:28:41.120,0:28:44.559

maybe like you know may pick up the

breastfeeding and


0:28:44.559,0:28:48.320

the baby stuff quickly and that's fine

and other people might need more support


0:28:48.320,0:28:50.480

but it's knowing that you actually have

that support


0:28:50.480,0:28:54.159

biggest buzzwords that we use in

midwifery is you know individualized


0:28:54.159,0:28:57.520

care holistic care like

that's what we're trying to implement


0:28:57.520,0:29:02.159

here like i i'm not gonna just

charge you for five visits like you may


0:29:02.159,0:29:05.600

be doing absolutely amazing and only

need one or two you know it's your


0:29:05.600,0:29:09.120

individualized

it's your plan of care and that's what


0:29:09.120,0:29:12.480

we're looking forward to

that's what we're promoting out here


0:29:12.480,0:29:16.640

we're doing health promotion in a manner

we want to prevent it before the problem


0:29:16.640,0:29:20.320

happens you know i mean we want you to

have complete informed choice


0:29:20.320,0:29:24.320

and and we're just literally like an nhs

and a hse service


0:29:24.320,0:29:28.000

just in the uae so would you if you'd

say you


0:29:28.000,0:29:31.600

you didn't come to amana before and then

you'd had your baby and


0:29:31.600,0:29:35.279

you feel that actually i would prefer

this postnatal support


0:29:35.279,0:29:39.279

and you reach out to amanda baby at that

stage um would that be something that


0:29:39.279,0:29:42.159

would be

okay can you reach out at that point


0:29:42.159,0:29:45.200

absolutely like we're

we're here for all services so there's


0:29:45.200,0:29:48.799

myself in dubai and then there's jackie

my counterpart in abu dhabi


0:29:48.799,0:29:52.320

so jackie's actually also a lactation

consultant as well and


0:29:52.320,0:29:55.520

so she's fantastic like she's done the

icldc and


0:29:55.520,0:29:58.559

i'm sorry no that's that's my other

company i'm working for she's done the


0:29:58.559,0:30:01.600

international

uh board certified lactation consultant


0:30:01.600,0:30:04.240

and

so she's done the course and she's


0:30:04.240,0:30:07.520

fantastic and

again it's having that support network


0:30:07.520,0:30:11.120

there so absolutely like even if you

come when the child's five we've never


0:30:11.120,0:30:13.440

met you before

like that's what we're here for we're


0:30:13.440,0:30:16.559

we're here to guide you and to

you know and again what we're trying to


0:30:16.559,0:30:19.440

develop as well is them services so we

obviously have a lot of


0:30:19.440,0:30:23.679

therapists with physios and ot's and

stuff so what we're our vision really


0:30:23.679,0:30:27.200

for the next 26 months forward is

developing like an early learning


0:30:27.200,0:30:29.200

childhood center kind of thing you know

that


0:30:29.200,0:30:32.159

you know you might meet these the

midwives but then jackie's the health


0:30:32.159,0:30:35.039

visitor

or you might meet sarah the physio or


0:30:35.039,0:30:37.039

whoever and it's having all these kind

of


0:30:37.039,0:30:40.799

it's just it's like the nhs so

absolutely whether you never meet us


0:30:40.799,0:30:43.279

before and then you decide to meet us

whenever you know


0:30:43.279,0:30:46.880

babies two months old that's fine as

well so if you have like a personal


0:30:46.880,0:30:49.360

concern that there may be some

developmental


0:30:49.360,0:30:52.960

um challenge that your child is having

then


0:30:52.960,0:30:55.600

yeah then you'd be the sort of the

company that you can reach out to and


0:30:55.600,0:30:58.399

you know which

services that person that or that child


0:30:58.399,0:31:00.880

and that mother need to see

and you know what it's even just a


0:31:00.880,0:31:03.679

consultation like you know we're just

doing a consultation over the phone at


0:31:03.679,0:31:06.559

the end of the day

sometimes you just need to just to speak


0:31:06.559,0:31:10.159

to someone and just just to know

you know a lot of people well i don't


0:31:10.159,0:31:14.159

find it here a lot of moms out here

keep or think their baby needs physio


0:31:14.159,0:31:18.320

physio physio

where it's not physio like what what is


0:31:18.320,0:31:20.799

done is it's a developmental check they

want


0:31:20.799,0:31:24.159

you know so like you know we just take

it for granted at home you have your


0:31:24.159,0:31:27.679

developmental checks but some of the new

moms here they kind of have an idea that


0:31:27.679,0:31:30.159

they need to be doing something but they

don't know what it is


0:31:30.159,0:31:33.200

so they presume it's physio whereby if

you ring off somewhere like you know you


0:31:33.200,0:31:35.120

don't necessarily need physio for the

baby


0:31:35.120,0:31:37.919

we might come out and do a developmental

check and then the baby's reaching on


0:31:37.919,0:31:40.399

its milestones and is absolutely fine

you know


0:31:40.399,0:31:44.559

it's that consultation that that we do

and so that developmental checks that


0:31:44.559,0:31:48.559

you're talking about is where

they give you you you ask certain


0:31:48.559,0:31:53.360

questions right can the child

hold a block in this hand grasping or


0:31:53.360,0:31:55.840

they

yeah and it's just the milestones


0:31:55.840,0:31:59.200

basically we talk about the milestones

like is your baby meeting the milestones


0:31:59.200,0:32:01.600

because

unfortunately there are cases out here


0:32:01.600,0:32:05.840

whereby we've seen babies who maybe

haven't met their milestones but haven't


0:32:05.840,0:32:09.200

actually been picked up and again it'd

be something good for us to maybe link


0:32:09.200,0:32:13.279

in with a few pediatricians

and amanda baby is relatively new like


0:32:13.279,0:32:15.760

if i was

really getting it going there before


0:32:15.760,0:32:18.960

before coverage and obviously then we

kind of had to


0:32:18.960,0:32:22.320

turn her to turn our attentions to that

so it's good now you know it's


0:32:22.320,0:32:27.039

kind of gone hand in hand with the stay

home stay safe model like it actually is


0:32:27.039,0:32:29.919

better i think i

think finally people understand that


0:32:29.919,0:32:33.039

there's not this big rush to run to

hospitals all the time


0:32:33.039,0:32:36.799

obviously if you need to go for your you

know for a referral absolutely you know


0:32:36.799,0:32:40.880

colleagues with your your your doctor

however for little things like that you


0:32:40.880,0:32:44.080

know things can be done at home like

that's what we're here for


0:32:44.080,0:32:47.519

and in the uk the do you know the post

natal


0:32:47.519,0:32:51.519

um not the postnatal sorry the um

injections the immunizations for the


0:32:51.519,0:32:55.440

child

they're done by a nurse yeah so you


0:32:55.440,0:32:58.480

don't really see

um a pediatrician or a doctor before


0:32:58.480,0:33:02.000

they just said that this is how what

month whatever you need to have these


0:33:02.000,0:33:05.200

immunizations and you sort of just

booking yourself is that something that


0:33:05.200,0:33:08.000

you guys do also or would you then would

you


0:33:08.000,0:33:11.840

for that look in time we're hoping to

develop kind of outpatients at one of


0:33:11.840,0:33:15.200

our services in abu dhabi anyway that's

definitely in the pipeline


0:33:15.200,0:33:19.519

dubai again you know we're just trying

to establish the home care and then


0:33:19.519,0:33:22.960

absolutely branch into that

that sort of avenue we wouldn't really


0:33:22.960,0:33:27.440

be giving vaccines or anything at home

and you know there's different um


0:33:27.440,0:33:31.840

pharmaceutical legislation out here

and it's you know it's not that we have


0:33:31.840,0:33:35.919

to be weary

of that when it's not fully developed


0:33:35.919,0:33:38.640

out here yet

but definitely in the pipeline like


0:33:38.640,0:33:41.840

that's what we're striving towards is to

get that model of care brought in is the


0:33:41.840,0:33:45.919

health visitor

you know and so when would a mum see


0:33:45.919,0:33:48.960

you guys over the pediatrician or when

would they


0:33:48.960,0:33:52.000

when should they opt to see the

pediatrician over you guys


0:33:52.000,0:33:55.519

so it's kind of hand-in-hand partnership

so again this is kind of something


0:33:55.519,0:33:58.159

whereby

you know midwife versus obstetrician


0:33:58.159,0:34:02.240

pediatrician versus health visitor

it's a it's an this is we're not one


0:34:02.240,0:34:04.960

versus another

it's very much like cohesive


0:34:04.960,0:34:09.119

multi-disciplinary team and that's

something that we want to get away from


0:34:09.119,0:34:12.639

is using this midwife or myth or

pediatrician or like


0:34:12.639,0:34:15.760

let's all work together and i do think

there's a little bit of


0:34:15.760,0:34:19.679

a competition in the uae for that and

maybe our roles as nurses and midwives


0:34:19.679,0:34:22.480

are not

very much understood but i think we're


0:34:22.480,0:34:25.520

getting there and i think

you know research from the uk and


0:34:25.520,0:34:29.520

ireland is kind of filtrating in here

and it's working together it's having


0:34:29.520,0:34:33.119

you know you're a multi-disciplinary

team you're getting all your information


0:34:33.119,0:34:36.240

from everyone we're all working together

and


0:34:36.240,0:34:39.520

so the pediatrician would work hand in

hand with us you know after your visit


0:34:39.520,0:34:42.560

you'd see the doctor and see the visitor

you don't need the health visitor


0:34:42.560,0:34:46.320

and so that's something that we're

learning we're going to try and push


0:34:46.320,0:34:48.800

towards

it is happening it's starting to happen


0:34:48.800,0:34:52.240

especially the midwifery aspect

there's a real question for midwifery


0:34:52.240,0:34:55.760

led care and so that's something that we

really want to push on because


0:34:55.760,0:35:00.560

it's the best model of care is to work

cohesively multi-disciplinary team


0:35:00.560,0:35:04.079

and i think in parts of the usa as well

they have um


0:35:04.079,0:35:07.440

midwifery led um it's different state to

state there i think


0:35:07.440,0:35:12.079

yeah we need to get away from this you

versus me like it has to be


0:35:12.079,0:35:15.359

you know doctors are very much needed

midwives are needed like you know


0:35:15.359,0:35:19.920

i just because you see i often say to my

students like i was trained this way so


0:35:19.920,0:35:22.800

i

think that way is best but like when you


0:35:22.800,0:35:26.079

travel like you you

i learned so much in australia i learned


0:35:26.079,0:35:29.040

so much in dubai

you your eyes are open to how other


0:35:29.040,0:35:32.640

people work and you learn every single

day and you take on new


0:35:32.640,0:35:36.320

you know practices and it's the same for

doctors and midwives you know if we work


0:35:36.320,0:35:39.359

together i've learned so much from the

doctors here in the uae


0:35:39.359,0:35:42.480

and in australia and ireland and then

i've you know they've equally learned


0:35:42.480,0:35:45.359

from me and they've liked

you know i remember a doctor turning to


0:35:45.359,0:35:49.119

me in dubai and watching me deliver like

i did help deliver want this baby and


0:35:49.119,0:35:51.520

she goes

i asked the lady to cough instead of


0:35:51.520,0:35:55.839

like blow and at the end

and it was just a nice delivery and she


0:35:55.839,0:35:58.000

wasn't like i've never seen that so

equally like


0:35:58.000,0:36:01.920

you know it's it's tip for chad like

it's it's we really need to get away


0:36:01.920,0:36:04.720

from you versus me

like we're all in this together and at


0:36:04.720,0:36:06.720

the end of the day we all went into this

job


0:36:06.720,0:36:10.320

to empower women to to make a difference

so


0:36:10.320,0:36:13.599

you know we need to stop it's not you

versus me it's


0:36:13.599,0:36:16.960

us together i heard there was a saying

what is it when


0:36:16.960,0:36:21.680

i become we even illness becomes

wellness or something it was really cute


0:36:21.680,0:36:25.119

yeah that's yeah illness becomes

wellness that's such a i've seen that


0:36:25.119,0:36:27.520

quite a few times over the last few

months but i think


0:36:27.520,0:36:30.800

obviously with this corvid it's it's

been going around but it's such a lovely


0:36:30.800,0:36:33.520

thought

um that actually if we work together


0:36:33.520,0:36:37.920

we'll have a much

better system for everybody and there


0:36:37.920,0:36:40.079

was the same when covid like you relied

on your


0:36:40.079,0:36:43.520

colleagues so much like i would not have

got through without my colleagues and


0:36:43.520,0:36:46.640

it's

and it's i think finally we put the


0:36:46.640,0:36:50.000

phones down i know we took up the phones

and we were all on zoom when we were on


0:36:50.000,0:36:52.160

everything

but we actually put the phones down and


0:36:52.160,0:36:55.119

had to talk to each other you know even

my housemates and me


0:36:55.119,0:36:58.560

playing scrabble like it was hilarious

to me what was the last time they'd


0:36:58.560,0:37:02.000

scrabble

and nothing very good but sure but


0:37:02.000,0:37:04.160

that's what i mean

i mean we just did things that we never


0:37:04.160,0:37:07.040

thought we'd have to do we all got

pushed


0:37:07.040,0:37:10.720

out of our comfort zone and it made us

better people change is good it's scary


0:37:10.720,0:37:13.359

but it's good

i absolutely agree with you right


0:37:13.359,0:37:17.520

because i think that

that push and otherwise i mean when


0:37:17.520,0:37:20.560

would we have ever thought that we would

have to deal with something like this


0:37:20.560,0:37:24.880

and i'm sure coming out of this every

single person to some degree will say


0:37:24.880,0:37:28.480

that they've grown maybe not immediately

but in a year's time in two years time i


0:37:28.480,0:37:32.240

think everybody will have

learned something from this situation


0:37:32.240,0:37:35.520

absolutely like and the thing is

i think we all thought we were a little


0:37:35.520,0:37:40.480

bit invisible and now suddenly like

we're just i'm a different person to


0:37:40.480,0:37:43.200

what i was when i last spoke to you

anyway 100


0:37:43.200,0:37:47.280

like it's crazy i'm sure every every

person will actually be able to say that


0:37:47.280,0:37:51.119

though to a d and that's what i mean by

they may not say straight away but i'm


0:37:51.119,0:37:53.280

sure at some point they'll be able to

reflect


0:37:53.280,0:37:56.320

back and actually see the changes that

they've made in their life


0:37:56.320,0:37:59.760

um or things that they've just learned

it may not be like


0:37:59.760,0:38:04.320

huge life-changing um things but

there are definitely small things that


0:38:04.320,0:38:06.960

we've all probably learned from this

situation


0:38:06.960,0:38:11.680

yeah and how amazing everyone is like

business proposals and like how creative


0:38:11.680,0:38:14.640

people have been like even my friends

who are midwives like with their online


0:38:14.640,0:38:17.440

stuff

they're amazing like i just i don't know


0:38:17.440,0:38:20.320

some of them just have brought

amazing brains i wouldn't think of the


0:38:20.320,0:38:24.160

things that they've done so how

companies have pivoted and how they've


0:38:24.160,0:38:26.880

really sort of embraced the change and i

think


0:38:26.880,0:38:30.640

going forward i think maybe this is what

we'll be living in now this kind of


0:38:30.640,0:38:33.280

world where

you know people will be changing quite


0:38:33.280,0:38:36.880

frequently and embracing the change and

i hope so because it's such an


0:38:36.880,0:38:40.160

empowering thought so now my favorite

thing is though


0:38:40.160,0:38:43.280

how busy we're going to be in about nine

months time


0:38:43.280,0:38:47.760

terrified i mean do you know i've heard

this so many times but honestly if


0:38:47.760,0:38:50.000

you've got a child at home i really

don't think


0:38:50.000,0:38:53.280

that's been crossing your mind i know

but do you


0:38:53.280,0:38:56.880

know what though honest to god when 50

shades of grey came out back in november


0:38:56.880,0:39:00.640

2016. no sorry

february 2016 57th grade i'll never


0:39:00.640,0:39:06.079

forget it november 2016

i remember crying on the neighbor wars


0:39:06.079,0:39:10.079

delivering my seventh child to people

who had two and three before


0:39:10.079,0:39:13.119

finally she was like lads come on please

like


0:39:13.119,0:39:15.760

share


0:39:27.119,0:39:30.800

i mean subscribe maybe we'll it'll be

nice to catch up i guess and we'll


0:39:30.800,0:39:34.000

we'll do this in nine months time and

see if it was something that might be


0:39:34.000,0:39:38.480

too busy

i'll be too busy but you know what i had


0:39:38.480,0:39:41.680

really fantastic news today i had one of

my filipina nurses


0:39:41.680,0:39:44.480

and who helped me through this covenant

project she really really really wanted


0:39:44.480,0:39:47.920

to get pregnant

and and she had like infertility and


0:39:47.920,0:39:51.200

blah blah blah anyway i was guiding her

and i was giving her like dietary advice


0:39:51.200,0:39:54.480

and all this kind of advice and i said

look at the irish is with you now and i


0:39:54.480,0:39:57.839

was getting her to meditate blah blah

and she texted me this morning to say


0:39:57.839,0:40:02.160

she's pregnant oh that's amazing news

oh stuff i haven't stopped crying all


0:40:02.160,0:40:06.079

day oh i'm sending her loads of positive

vibes i know


0:40:06.079,0:40:12.319

she's enough for corona please

that's it i mean that's such a lovely


0:40:12.319,0:40:17.040

end to a crazy few months

isn't it like life goes on you know i


0:40:17.040,0:40:20.160

mean unfortunately her

her father-in-law died of corona and


0:40:20.160,0:40:24.480

look now she's pregnant

with her yeah


0:40:24.480,0:40:28.319

it's mad isn't it i mean the things that

people i think when we


0:40:28.319,0:40:31.839

actually sit down and think about the

extent of what people have had to


0:40:31.839,0:40:38.160

actually emotionally deal with

it's really quite intense and i know


0:40:38.160,0:40:40.400

it's

it's different from individual to


0:40:40.400,0:40:45.440

individual but each person's

challenge has been different and that


0:40:45.440,0:40:49.839

challenge has been

yeah huge real for that person right


0:40:49.839,0:40:52.240

yeah

huge and i think you know i think we


0:40:52.240,0:40:55.920

really should get on we should do a

debrief we should link up again and


0:40:55.920,0:40:59.359

a little bit of a debrief session and

and kind of see what everyone


0:40:59.359,0:41:02.400

has or wants us to do or like what would

be best


0:41:02.400,0:41:05.440

so from a frontline perspective i assume

that would be something that the


0:41:05.440,0:41:08.240

companies will definitely think about

and maybe reach out to some


0:41:08.240,0:41:11.359

psychologists and we'll

we'll hopefully work with the frontline


0:41:11.359,0:41:16.000

staff and do something like that

but from like your perspective if this


0:41:16.000,0:41:18.160

is some

if we're sort of talking to somebody


0:41:18.160,0:41:21.200

who's just recently given birth and they

may not obviously they've


0:41:21.200,0:41:24.319

gone through the highs and lows of the

whole situation


0:41:24.319,0:41:27.680

what would you feel would be an

appropriate way to maybe


0:41:27.680,0:41:31.200

debrief for them for that for a mom at

home


0:41:31.200,0:41:35.119

i think often it's just sitting and

talking like obviously


0:41:35.119,0:41:39.680

reading today it's like on this unicef

website this irish midwife how she said


0:41:39.680,0:41:42.640

that she

missed the face-to-face with the women


0:41:42.640,0:41:45.440

because she valued it so much and it

really struck home with me because i


0:41:45.440,0:41:47.760

really did

miss that face-to-face connection with


0:41:47.760,0:41:50.400

women like that you know

when you're an empath kind of like


0:41:50.400,0:41:52.560

myself you read body language and you

can really


0:41:52.560,0:41:55.760

kind of tap into more of an emotional

state and


0:41:55.760,0:41:58.880

when you're in front of them so again

what i would love is to try and slowly


0:41:58.880,0:42:03.119

integrate that face-to-face

meeting back and just letting the women


0:42:03.119,0:42:06.640

talk like i know i never shut up

but it's not about us like letting them


0:42:06.640,0:42:10.400

just to let it out and sometimes that's

even just enough


0:42:10.400,0:42:13.920

and just letting them have their time to

call whoever


0:42:13.920,0:42:17.520

what they want and just to you know no

unbiased


0:42:17.520,0:42:21.200

safe zone for them just to say what they

want you know what i mean and then


0:42:21.200,0:42:25.200

they may never repeat it again but again

it's having the services there to refer


0:42:25.200,0:42:29.839

them if they needed to as well

and and when we debrief because it's


0:42:29.839,0:42:33.680

such a common tool that we use in

midwifery we always debrief after the


0:42:33.680,0:42:36.000

traumatic labor

i personally think that you should


0:42:36.000,0:42:39.040

debrief after every labor you know what

i mean i really do


0:42:39.040,0:42:43.119

you know we often as midwives sit and

debrief after the labors that we


0:42:43.119,0:42:46.720

look after and because it's the biggest

thing that's one of the biggest things


0:42:46.720,0:42:48.720

that will ever happen to you in your

life


0:42:48.720,0:42:53.760

so what i feel is we should just do a

little bit of a guided


0:42:53.760,0:42:56.880

debrief a little bit of a structured one

and just let them talk


0:42:56.880,0:43:00.319

about what they feel and kind of

rationalize you know why this would have


0:43:00.319,0:43:03.839

happened or why that would have happened

you know but not putting words in their


0:43:03.839,0:43:07.920

mouth either allowing them to kind of

grieve or whatever that whatever emotion


0:43:07.920,0:43:11.599

they're feeling allow them to have it

and if there's obviously a listener at


0:43:11.599,0:43:14.000

home right now a mom at home who's

listening


0:43:14.000,0:43:17.200

and she may be dealing with some of

these emotions


0:43:17.200,0:43:22.240

and she's not sure whether it's just

sort of normal emotions of post preg um


0:43:22.240,0:43:27.280

post birth um or if it's

something that she should maybe reach


0:43:27.280,0:43:31.040

out for help

um it may be postnatal depression or


0:43:31.040,0:43:34.319

just maybe baby blues

what do you what would you say you


0:43:34.319,0:43:38.880

should be sort of looking out for

before so to actually reach out for help


0:43:38.880,0:43:41.440

he says what

what i always say to everyone is what


0:43:41.440,0:43:46.160

you're feeling is valid

so you know just because you


0:43:46.160,0:43:50.160

are feeling you know whatever you're

feeling is valid


0:43:50.160,0:43:54.720

some people may cope with it better than

others like it's very individualized


0:43:54.720,0:43:58.480

what i always say is that sometimes we

compensate an awful lot as women like we


0:43:58.480,0:44:02.079

compensate and

to the point of like that we don't


0:44:02.079,0:44:05.440

actually realize the whole that we're in

and i say this to women when they go


0:44:05.440,0:44:08.480

home often their partners will be the

first ones to say look


0:44:08.480,0:44:11.920

like she's just not yourself or you're

just not yourself and then usually you


0:44:11.920,0:44:14.880

know the woman bites back i'm fine i'm

fine you know what i mean and it's kind


0:44:14.880,0:44:17.359

of autopilot and again we were

discussing you know all the other


0:44:17.359,0:44:20.079

factors in the uae like the short

paternity leave and


0:44:20.079,0:44:24.560

you know now unemployment and things so

whatever you're feeling is valid and you


0:44:24.560,0:44:27.520

know what this is why

women are fantastic of having a good


0:44:27.520,0:44:32.079

matter and a chat

you know if you just feel it's okay to


0:44:32.079,0:44:34.560

say

that you're not okay and it's okay to


0:44:34.560,0:44:38.319

say i am okay but i

might not be or i'm not okay but i will


0:44:38.319,0:44:40.960

be okay

like whatever if you get it out there


0:44:40.960,0:44:44.720

air it like jot it down

sometimes even sometimes even when you


0:44:44.720,0:44:47.520

say things out loud you kind of catch

yourself being ridiculous


0:44:47.520,0:44:51.440

or you know and then you settle you

settle yourself and your anxiety down a


0:44:51.440,0:44:54.640

little bit but then other times you do

just need to go and vent and talk to


0:44:54.640,0:44:57.680

someone a little bit

who's impartial or unbiased so that's


0:44:57.680,0:45:00.960

not your husband because he's not

understanding what you feel


0:45:00.960,0:45:05.760

so it's just been rationalizing why am i

feeling like this


0:45:05.760,0:45:08.880

what triggers do i have in my life that

are making me


0:45:08.880,0:45:13.040

feel like this you know why doesn't he

understand


0:45:13.040,0:45:16.640

why isn't the baby sleeping all of these

things so it's just


0:45:16.640,0:45:20.240

rationalizing why you feel like this

knowing


0:45:20.240,0:45:24.720

where you can turn to having that one

friend having that one family member


0:45:24.720,0:45:28.880

or just having that one midwife or

whoever you feel is going to


0:45:28.880,0:45:32.800

sit and listen and then sometimes you

might not need any more follow-up and


0:45:32.800,0:45:35.680

then sometimes

you nearly answer your own questions so


0:45:35.680,0:45:39.359

often what i find is your powerage brain

is what i call it so


0:45:39.359,0:45:42.720

our placenta brain so you just can't see

the what's in the trees after you've


0:45:42.720,0:45:45.119

delivered like everything is foggy

nearly


0:45:45.119,0:45:48.880

and at that point you know you really do

need to just verbalize how you're


0:45:48.880,0:45:51.119

feeling even if you don't know how you

are feeling


0:45:51.119,0:45:54.960

it's just verbalizing it out loud and

then sometimes you often answer your own


0:45:54.960,0:45:57.359

question and you're like okay no i do

need to seek help


0:45:57.359,0:46:01.520

yeah and i guess as a midwife you would

know um you would see some triggers


0:46:01.520,0:46:05.680

where you'd know to sort of

um suggest that to a mom anyway if you


0:46:05.680,0:46:08.960

were the one talking to them i just wish

there was more kind of community


0:46:08.960,0:46:13.599

midwives because this is

where i feel is where we pick it up the


0:46:13.599,0:46:15.760

most

like you're on a high the few days after


0:46:15.760,0:46:17.520

you have your baby you're going to have

the day


0:46:17.520,0:46:21.280

two blues after you have the baby you

know even seeing friends and colleagues


0:46:21.280,0:46:25.040

like it's nearly four or six months

before kind of postnatal depression sits


0:46:25.040,0:46:27.359

in

or can set in you know what i mean and


0:46:27.359,0:46:30.960

it's at that point that your life has

changed so dramatically that suddenly


0:46:30.960,0:46:33.680

you just cut

you know you're grieving your past life


0:46:33.680,0:46:37.200

or or you're just

very unsure of what your future life is


0:46:37.200,0:46:40.000

so you know it's only four or six months

down the line i'm sure you can agree


0:46:40.000,0:46:42.480

like you're a manny i'm not i haven't

had kids yet


0:46:42.480,0:46:49.440

but it's it's just normalizing

emotions normalizing you know i remember


0:46:49.440,0:46:53.200

gotten like i shouldn't have gone from

telling the story but this one young


0:46:53.200,0:46:57.040

girl said to me in ireland like

i just don't want to see my baby and


0:46:57.040,0:47:00.560

they were like section or

section or she's not well she's not well


0:47:00.560,0:47:04.240

i was like no of course she's well

she's just had a force that's delivery


0:47:04.240,0:47:06.880

she just it just needs a minute you know

what i mean


0:47:06.880,0:47:10.720

so it's normalizing all these emotions

it's normalizing that sometimes you


0:47:10.720,0:47:14.319

don't love your children

as my mother says i don't she goes i


0:47:14.319,0:47:17.359

don't like you sometimes but i always

love you you know


0:47:17.359,0:47:21.200

so that's normal do you know what i mean

and just being real


0:47:21.200,0:47:24.720

just being honest and real yeah i think

just being authentic


0:47:24.720,0:47:30.079

about what the actual journey

is and there's nothing wrong with having


0:47:30.079,0:47:33.680

lows and it does come with some amazing

highs


0:47:33.680,0:47:37.280

but it's okay to have those lows as well

and being honest that


0:47:37.280,0:47:41.359

you know this happens and it probably

happens to nearly every single one of


0:47:41.359,0:47:45.280

us yeah i think we are moving towards a

society where it is more normal to talk


0:47:45.280,0:47:48.160

about the laws

and and it's and it's okay to talk about


0:47:48.160,0:47:51.119

them a good thing

that i heard as well like and this is


0:47:51.119,0:47:54.240

all you know there's a lot a lot

lots of conversations take place in the


0:47:54.240,0:47:58.720

labor world but i remember this

old old iron to me and her her 19 year


0:47:58.720,0:48:01.520

old granddaughter was having a baby and

she just said to me


0:48:01.520,0:48:05.520

nursey she goes look over there she went

why do you think labor's so hard she's


0:48:05.520,0:48:09.280

the hardest thing you'll ever do because

you'll never love you'll never love as


0:48:09.280,0:48:12.079

hard as

what you do your own child i literally


0:48:12.079,0:48:14.480

was like oh my god it was something that

stuck with me


0:48:14.480,0:48:17.760

like that's why labor is so hard you'll

never feel a love like it yeah


0:48:17.760,0:48:22.559

like the euphoria and the love and yeah

i guess you're totally right


0:48:22.559,0:48:26.079

and to bring a child into this earth of

course you're going to have


0:48:26.079,0:48:30.319

the biggest fluctuation in hormones like

you've made a child like your hormones


0:48:30.319,0:48:32.480

are

i always say we don't give hormones


0:48:32.480,0:48:35.520

enough credit for the amazing

thing they do in our body with the side


0:48:35.520,0:48:37.280

effects they can cause you know what i

mean


0:48:37.280,0:48:42.160

and it really is a huge factor as to why

women feel the highs and lows


0:48:42.160,0:48:46.800

yeah i think like recently i remember um

having a discussion with a friend


0:48:46.800,0:48:50.400

who has recently given birth and she you

know the


0:48:50.400,0:48:54.480

the hormones are so unstable and it's

just not wanting to be around anybody


0:48:54.480,0:48:56.720

and

you know sometimes that's normal because


0:48:56.720,0:48:59.920

and and she didn't realize obviously

that was her hormones making her feel


0:48:59.920,0:49:02.079

that way but

she just couldn't understand why she


0:49:02.079,0:49:05.760

didn't want to be around anybody

i just love normalizing it like there's


0:49:05.760,0:49:08.480

nothing better than sitting around a

gang of women


0:49:08.480,0:49:14.160

laughing at how demented we all are and

you know and how funny it is i


0:49:14.160,0:49:16.240

personally can't wait my friends my best

friend


0:49:16.240,0:49:20.480

ruth is like i am i'm not being around

you pregnant you're going to be demented


0:49:20.480,0:49:23.760

you know and even us laughing about it

now like we know what's to come and


0:49:23.760,0:49:27.280

we're actually so excited like i don't

have a baby and she doesn't have a baby


0:49:27.280,0:49:30.640

but we've seen it and it's like you know

we're laughing and we're getting excited


0:49:30.640,0:49:35.440

and it's it's normalizing it though it's

normalizing the hands and nose


0:49:35.440,0:49:38.880

yeah i was definitely not the night i

mean i'm not i wasn't the nicest person


0:49:38.880,0:49:42.079

when i was pregnant

for sure i mean hats off to my husband


0:49:42.079,0:49:44.800

for dealing with me for nine months

hilarious


0:49:44.800,0:49:48.160

it's yeah it's incredible what your

hormones can do but like


0:49:48.160,0:49:51.760

you can only reflect back after so after

you give birth and you feel a bit normal


0:49:51.760,0:49:54.559

again

you're a bit like oh that would happen


0:49:54.559,0:49:57.359

to the life i want

yeah that's why i want to do antennae


0:49:57.359,0:50:00.240

classes and that's why i love like you

said to me like what are you what do you


0:50:00.240,0:50:03.520

love i love

having a laugh with the dads like


0:50:03.520,0:50:06.880

teasing you know the women and

how demented they are and how they're


0:50:06.880,0:50:10.319

hormonal and you know and

have the dads all belly laughing and


0:50:10.319,0:50:13.680

then for them to bond and to realize

that what they're going through with


0:50:13.680,0:50:16.400

their wife

is normal you know what i mean and it's


0:50:16.400,0:50:20.240

kind of normalizing

that we're not these hollywood movie


0:50:20.240,0:50:23.440

stars that pop back and

you know it's having a good l belly


0:50:23.440,0:50:26.720

laugh about the trials and tribulations

of being a parent


0:50:26.720,0:50:30.079

i can't wait and it's true because i

mean


0:50:30.079,0:50:33.200

the dads have a journey of themselves

right yeah


0:50:33.200,0:50:36.720

well of the dads the dads are my

favorite like they go from having


0:50:36.720,0:50:44.319

like a wife to having a pregnant

wife to then um like a mother


0:50:44.319,0:50:47.760

remember they will always be your first

boy and that is something like i've


0:50:47.760,0:50:50.640

learned

my my parents are so in love and she's


0:50:50.640,0:50:52.960

like it's just such a different love i

have for you


0:50:52.960,0:50:56.559

and your sister compared to you know

your dad and that's something i will


0:50:56.559,0:50:59.119

very

very strongly say is like they are your


0:50:59.119,0:51:02.319

first love and they need to you know we

often kind of put them to the side a


0:51:02.319,0:51:04.319

little bit

and they have to remember that they're


0:51:04.319,0:51:06.800

such an important part of the family as

well and we need to


0:51:06.800,0:51:09.839

give them all the love attention as well

they're look they're


0:51:09.839,0:51:14.640

the first one babies aren't they i

totally agree with you um


0:51:14.640,0:51:17.680

on that note rebecca i think um we had a

very


0:51:17.680,0:51:22.079

um i mean i love i always love talking

to you i know i'm talking to you


0:51:22.079,0:51:25.440

i learned so much when i speak to you

honestly um


0:51:25.440,0:51:28.480

and you're an incredible person and

thank you to you


0:51:28.480,0:51:31.680

and your whole team for the amount of

work and


0:51:31.680,0:51:34.720

the hours and the effort you've put in

over the last few months


0:51:34.720,0:51:37.599

and i'm sure you're listening and being

there you've always been there for me


0:51:37.599,0:51:40.640

you're so good

and i'm sure every single listener


0:51:40.640,0:51:43.520

listening to this podcast will want to

sort of thank you


0:51:43.520,0:51:47.119

and thank you all for your services

during these last few months because


0:51:47.119,0:51:50.000

without you guys and without the

frontline staff we wouldn't be where we


0:51:50.000,0:51:53.200

are right now

um where's the best place if someone


0:51:53.200,0:51:56.720

wants to reach out to you

or contact you where's the best place to


0:51:56.720,0:51:59.760

to contact you

so instagram really we're friends on


0:51:59.760,0:52:04.880

instagram anyway and

so it is midwife rebecca and dxb so


0:52:04.880,0:52:08.160

um or ask them on a baby there's a

there's an instagram account there but


0:52:08.160,0:52:10.559

otherwise then you can just email me as

well


0:52:10.559,0:52:14.480

um i'll suppose i can give you details

if any of your and your listeners want


0:52:14.480,0:52:18.160

but yeah this won't be the end of us we

so much to say don't we we're always


0:52:18.160,0:52:20.800

talking

yeah definitely and i will definitely


0:52:20.800,0:52:24.960

put those details in the show notes

so um the listeners will be able to find


0:52:24.960,0:52:27.599

you easily

and i just want to thank you again for


0:52:27.599,0:52:33.839

taking the time today

thank you and i'll be in touch


0:53:10.480,0:53:12.559

you